"God Save the Queen" too short, says Lewis Hamilton

[Flosshilde]

Yes, I do love the Ives version, & long for it to be played on the rare occasion when Madge attends a concert.

[Chris Newman]

Yes, I do love the Ives version, & long for it to be played on the rare occasion when Madge attends a concert.

Or the William Schuman orchestration for the Last Night? Better still, another night as it would be wasted in that bun fight.

[EdgeleyRob]

what about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjEphmIqtjM

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8fLOJswWtk

[Anna]

3. Yes, there is, however I believe there could just as well be an English anthem as well. After all the Welsh have "Cwm Rhonda:

Actually, the Welsh National Anthem is not Cwm Rhondda (note correct spelling) which is a popular hymn tune written by John Hughes (1873–1932) and first performed in 1907. It is often erroneously called Bread Of Heaven and is usually used in English as a setting for William Williams's text Guide Me, O Thou Great Jehovah (or, in some traditions, Guide Me, O Thou Great Redeemer), normally it is sung at Rugby matches or when we have had a bit to drink and wish to be sociable.

The Welsh National Anthem is Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau - The Land Of My Fathers. Just to set the record straight.

In 1905, Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau became the first national anthem to be sung at the start of a sporting event. Although crowds singing anthems during matches was common place, there was no precedent for the anthem to be sung before a game commenced in any sport. Wales were playing host to the first touring New Zealand team, who to that point were unbeaten. After Wales won the Triple Crown in the 1905 Home Nations Championship the match was dubbed the 'Game of the Century' by the press. The New Zealand team started every match with the Haka, and Welsh Rugby Union administrator Tom Williams, suggested that Wales player Teddy Morgan lead the crowd in the singing of the anthem as a response. After Morgan began singing, the crowd joined in,and Wales became the first nation to sing a national anthem at the start of a sporting event.

Just a bit of trivia.

[ahinton]

Oh, Mr. Hinton, you really are a barrel of laughs aren't you?

A kilo or two overweight though I may be (not that this is any of your business), I submit that I am nevertheless not a "barrel" of anything.

Still, to answer your points.......

1. The thread is about the National Anthem. However, it was started as a result of a comment about said anthem by Lewis Hamilton, a Formula One Motor Racing driver and winner of the 2008 World Driver's Championship. One or two other posters, with wearying predictability, then used that as a reason to pronounce the sport as boring. I disagree with that, and said so in response. I'm therefore not entirely sure why you aren't directing your comments at the tedious individuals who first derailed this thread, but there we go.

Then let me tell you. I could no more care less about motor racing itself than about your championship of it or certain posters' boredom with it, so for those reasons and others I am not motivated to direct comments at those who do not share your positive thoughts about motor racing, especially as such thoughts would not in any case "derail" a thread not devoted to that subject - and so there I do NOT go, as it happens...

[QUOTE=Mr Pee;70361]
2. Personally, I think our anthem is about the right length, however I find it musically moribund and, since it glorifies the unelected head of state rather than the United Kingdom itself, rather as one would expect in, say, North Korea, I do not believe it is appropriately worded.[quote]
In this I am partially in agreement with you. Whilst I'm not convinced of the need for such an anthem these days and am accordingly unqualified to comment as to the appropriateness or otherwise of its length and therefore see no reason even to attempt to do so, I agree that the thing is indeed "musically moribund" (and that's being polite about it!) and its glorification of an unelected head of state might be seen by some to be inappropriate, although the expectation that an alternative anthem might celebrate "the United Kingdom itself" might seem equally inapposite in a climate in which the continuation of that union is in question.

3. Yes, there is, however I believe there could just as well be an English anthem as well. After all the Welsh have "Cwm Rhonda", and the Scots "Flower of Scotland", which are pretty much National Anthems for those two nations.

OK (though there are two "d"s in "Rhondda") as far as your answer goes, but you do not say why the English, Welsh or Scots have need of such an anthem...

4. As I have mentioned earlier, I am not a fan of either the words or the melody of our current Anthem. As to references to God, it does seem bizarre that in these enlightened times a National Anthem should mention a mythical entity of which there is no proof of existence.

Fair comment.

5. I think Lewis Hamilton's comment has every right to be taken as seriously as any, for example on these boards. As to a connection with his profession, since he has to stand there listening to it in front of millions of TV viewers every time he wins, I should have thought that was self- evident.

If it is indeed to be taken seriously (and I did not suggest that it should not be - merely posed a question as to whether or not it should be), your claim for its intrinsic connection with his profession cuts no ice with me and probably does not do so for many others either; anyone could have made such a remark en passant, regardless of whther or not or on how many and what kinds of occasion he might have to find himself listening to a performance of it (and, after all, that fact arises merely from someone's perceived need to air it on occasions such as those that you mention, rather from any sense that this anthem has some umbilical connection with the particular sport of which Mr Hamilton is a practitioner).

Happy now?

I was not unhappy before reading your post and, since you and your writings have not the remotest influence over whether, when, how or to what extent I might be happy "now" or at any other time before and/or afterwards, your question invalidates itself.

[ahinton]

Actually, the Welsh National Anthem is not Cwm Rhondda (note correct spelling) which is a popular hymn tune written by John Hughes (1873–1932) and first performed in 1907. It is often erroneously called Bread Of Heaven and is usually used in English as a setting for William Williams's text Guide Me, O Thou Great Jehovah (or, in some traditions, Guide Me, O Thou Great Redeemer), normally it is sung at Rugby matches or when we have had a bit to drink and wish to be sociable.

The Welsh National Anthem is Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau - The Land Of My Fathers. Just to set the record straight.

Thank you for doing this: I desisted from so doing because I was confident that you would do it with the due Welsh authority vested in you and which I, as a mere Scotsman, do not possess! Aout yurr in deepest darkest Herefordistan, there are those (albeit in no kind of majority) who regard the Welsh national anthem as "Land of my Illegitimate Fathers", but let's not get bogged down with such Historically Uninformed Performance Practice issues, look you...

In 1905, Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau became the first national anthem to be sung at the start of a sporting event. Although crowds singing anthems during matches was common place, there was no precedent for the anthem to be sung before a game commenced in any sport. Wales were playing host to the first touring New Zealand team, who to that point were unbeaten. After Wales won the Triple Crown in the 1905 Home Nations Championship the match was dubbed the 'Game of the Century' by the press. The New Zealand team started every match with the Haka, and Welsh Rugby Union administrator Tom Williams, suggested that Wales player Teddy Morgan lead the crowd in the singing of the anthem as a response. After Morgan began singing, the crowd joined in,and Wales became the first nation to sing a national anthem at the start of a sporting event.

Just a bit of trivia.[/QUOTE]

[Flosshilde]

I was not unhappy before reading your post and, since you [Mr Pee] and your writings have not the remotest influence over whether, when, how or to what extent I might be happy "now" or at any other time before and/or afterwards, your question invalidates itself.

[BBMmk2]

I am a bit late in arriving at this thread. In due consideration to Lewes Hamilton's comment, I quite agree with him. I dpo think it short. I still dont agree that it a very good National Anthem either. Something like 'Jerusalem' or 'Land of Hope and Glory', would be very good substitues.

[Alain Maréchal]

An obvious solution.

Use a slower recording, or one which repeats the second half.

I recall many NA performances by Glorious John when one wanted it to last as long as possible.

[Pabmusic]

I've come late to this, but I'll offer a little pedantry. We don't have a 'national anthem' in the sense that one has ever been adopted. "God Save the Queen" is the royal anthem only because monarchs since 1745 have wished it so, and there are some quite complex rules about its use in royal contexts. But it's never been adopted more widely, and certainly not in a 'national' sense - no vote in the House for instance. We just choose to play it and have become used to it. (Likewise the Union Flag has never been adopted as a 'national' flag - it was designed for James I's navy, but its use has been extended to the other services and to government establishments.)

The tune of God Save the Queen was once used very widely (it's still the anthem of Liechtenstein), notably by both Prussia and Bavaria, as well as Switzerland, Brunswick, Hanover, Saxony, Weimar, Württemberg and Norway. As 'Heil dir im Siegerkranz' it was the anthem of the German Empire until 1918 - the Haydn tune was the anthem of the Austrian Empire (which is what it was written for, of course). And before the USA adopted The Star-Spangled Banner in 1932 (officially, unlike us) 'My Country 'tis of Thee' was as strong a contender for its national anthem.

So 'God Save' has been influential. It is mercifully short (a point in its favour, I'd say) and is not particularly belligerent, at least if we ignore the infamous 1745 sixth verse (which we do - who remembers even the second verse?). It's certainly less warlike than 'Flower of Scotland', which celebrates the victory by one Norman king (Robert I) over another (Edward II) in 1314. And its best feature is that no other tune becomes more politicised and devalued by the non-musical association.

[ahinton]

At least God help the Queen's not played as often or as widely as once it was in Britain when concert and theatre performances usually began with a rendition of it; that surely says something about its currecy today. It might be argued that the need to change a national anthem of a country purely because its monarchy has been dissolved or has chosen to dissolve itself might be somewhat strange (not that there appears to be much likelihood of that happening in Britain in the near future, although anything's possible, of course). The case for adoption of a non-monarchical and non-specifically-religion-oriented national anthem may be argued to some purpose, although one might equally question the need for one in the first place in tems of the purpose that it is supposed to serve.

Perhaps one of the worst instances of a performance of the British national anthem was just before the outbreak of WWII where, as legend has it, the conductor Adrian Boult wilfully cut across the applause that followed the world première of Alan Bush's Piano Concerto by insisting that the orchestra play it - a decision that I cannot imagine gave much pleasure to the soloist in the concerto who was still on stage at the time and who just happened to be the composer (of the concerto, of course, not of the national anthem) who could surely have been forgiven thereafter for thinking of that dull ditty as the national anathema...

[barber olly]

Use a slower recording, or one which repeats the second half.

I recall many NA performances by Glorious John when one wanted it to last as long as possible.

Sheffield City Hall 1960s - Magnificent every time!

[Beef Oven!]

Personally I think our dirge of a national anthem is quite long enough, but I can see his point. I wouldn't object to a longer anthem if only it was a more interesting one. Personally, I'm in favour of "Jerusalem."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...too-short.html

And Lewis wins Sports Personality Of The Year !!!

Let's hear it for the man!!!!

[Flosshilde]

'Personality'?

Perhaps one of the rules should be that if he wants to be 'British' he should live in Britian & pay taxes, not avoid them by living in Ruritania.

[gurnemanz]

Until UKIP take over we are free to go and live where we want in Europe. When I was living abroad I didn't feel any less British - probably even more so. To attack successful people is a rather British trait, even less appealing when combined with hypocrisy such as the Daily Mail (billionaire non-dom proprietor) recently also laying into the World Champion.