"God Save the Queen" too short, says Lewis Hamilton

[ahinton]

Oh dear, oh dear. SOOO predictable!

If you had watched last weekend's German Grand Prix, which Lewis Hamilton won in such fine style, you would understand why the above comment is so ridiculous. Or indeed the Canadian GP of a few weeks ago, which Jenson Button won on the very last lap. Or the Brazilian GP of 2008, where Lewis Hamilton won the World Championship on the last corner of the last lap.

I am often accused of finding cricket deadly boring because I do not appreciate the subtleties of the game, and that is probably quite right, but the same applies to Formula one. There is so much more to it than some people understand. You do need a certain amount of brain capacity to fully enjoy it, which some here are clearly lacking.

Be any of that as it may (or may not), I had thought that this thread was for the purpose of discussing the appropriateness or otherwise of the length of the British National Anthem and that, whilst responses that address this directly or give consideration to the words or music of said anthem or whether such an anthem is even needed at all today and such like would seem to be more or less on topic, the matter of whether or why you might be bored with cricket but not with motor racing is surely quite beside the point in a discussion of matters concerning that anthem, regardless of the profession of the person whose comment on it gave rise to this thread; Mr Hamilton's comment is, after all, hardly relevant to or reflective of his profession, is it?

[LHC]

Well, at least it doesn't mention crushing rebellious Scots, as one verse of God save the Queen does.

A popular misconception.

The verse:

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.

Was written in 1745 as a temporary addition and was in use only for a very short time thereafter. It was no longer in use by the time God Save the King became accepted as the National Anthem in the 1790s and has never been part of the official anthem.

It is not the only temporary addition composed to coincide with contemporary events. For example, at the same time, the Jacobites had their own alternative verse, which might well still find favour north of the border:

God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt’ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

[scottycelt]

A popular misconception.

The verse:

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.

Was written in 1745 as a temporary addition and was in use only for a very short time thereafter. It was no longer in use by the time God Save the King became accepted as the National Anthem in the 1790s and has never been part of the official anthem.

It is not the only temporary addition composed to coincide with contemporary events. For example, at the same time, the Jacobites had their own alternative verse, which might well still find favour north of the border:

God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt’ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

Looks like God was badly advised in deciding the outcome ....

[ahinton]

Looks like God was badly advised in deciding the outcome ....

Whether or not that might be the case, there is, of course, an inherent problem in the maintenance of a national anthem that invokes God when that anthem is by definition supposed to be national rather than specific only to those who believe in God.

[Mr Pee]

Be any of that as it may (or may not), I had thought that this thread was for the purpose of discussing the appropriateness or otherwise of the length of the British National Anthem and that, whilst responses that address this directly or give consideration to the words or music of said anthem or whether such an anthem is even needed at all today and such like would seem to be more or less on topic, the matter of whether or why you might be bored with cricket but not with motor racing is surely quite beside the point in a discussion of matters concerning that anthem, regardless of the profession of the person whose comment on it gave rise to this thread; Mr Hamilton's comment is, after all, hardly relevant to or reflective of his profession, is it?

Are you a lawyer by any chance?

[ahinton]

Are you a lawyer by any chance?

No, not by any chance, any more than I was raised in Edinburgh (as the poster who is presumably a compatriot of mine rather oddly asked); for the record, I am a composer, not a member of the legal profession and I have no legal training or qualifications.

More importantly, however, as you have seen fit to respond to my post, why did you omit to reply to the points that I made in it? It's hardly a problem, after all, but let me simplify it for you by breaking it down into short questions, as follows:

1. Is this thread supposedly about your contrasting views of cricket and motor racing or about a public comment concerning the current British national anthem?
2. If the latter, is that anthem too long, too short or inappropriately worded and is it musically worthy?
3. Is there any longer a need for a British national anthem?
4. If there is a general majority perception that there is indeed a need for auch an anthem, is the current one relevant to the citizens of Britain by reason of its references to God?
5. Is Mr Hamilton's comment to be taken seriously but, if so, does it have any intrinsic connection with his profession?

There! I'm sure that you can manage this one with no trouble whatsoever.

[Ariosto]

Maybe Lewis Hamilton, although finding the dirge known as the national anthem too short, has a problem because he takes too long and rarely wins a race.

[Flosshilde]

Predictability alert - Mr Pee needn't read this.


The shorter the better - in either case.

[Anna]

When the German Formula 1 driver Sebastian Vettel wins, as he frequently does, the rendition of ‘Das Deutchlanlied’ takes 54.4 seconds. The Brazillian anthem was timed at 1 minute 53.2 seconds, while the Formula 1 version of Advance Australia Fair lasts 57.3 seconds.

So, God Save the Queen was timed at 44.4 seconds.

And this is really worth discussing? Hamilton had his 44 seconds of fame, not quite on the Andy Warhol scale of course .......

As to an "English" National Anthem, how about "There'll always be an England"?

[Mr Pee]

No, not by any chance, any more than I was raised in Edinburgh (as the poster who is presumably a compatriot of mine rather oddly asked); for the record, I am a composer, not a member of the legal profession and I have no legal training or qualifications.

More importantly, however, as you have seen fit to respond to my post, why did you omit to reply to the points that I made in it? It's hardly a problem, after all, but let me simplify it for you by breaking it down into short questions, as follows:

1. Is this thread supposedly about your contrasting views of cricket and motor racing or about a public comment concerning the current British national anthem?
2. If the latter, is that anthem too long, too short or inappropriately worded and is it musically worthy?
3. Is there any longer a need for a British national anthem?
4. If there is a general majority perception that there is indeed a need for auch an anthem, is the current one relevant to the citizens of Britain by reason of its references to God?
5. Is Mr Hamilton's comment to be taken seriously but, if so, does it have any intrinsic connection with his profession?

There! I'm sure that you can manage this one with no trouble whatsoever.

Oh, Mr. Hinton, you really are a barrel of laughs aren't you?

Still, to answer your points.......

1. The thread is about the National Anthem. However, it was started as a result of a comment about said anthem by Lewis Hamilton, a Formula One Motor Racing driver and winner of the 2008 World Driver's Championship. One or two other posters, with wearying predictability, then used that as a reason to pronounce the sport as boring. I disagree with that, and said so in response. I'm therefore not entirely sure why you aren't directing your comments at the tedious individuals who first derailed this thread, but there we go.

2. Personally, I think our anthem is about the right length, however I find it musically moribund and, since it glorifies the unelected head of state rather than the United Kingdom itself, rather as one would expect in, say, North Korea, I do not believe it is appropriately worded.

3. Yes, there is, however I believe there could just as well be an English anthem as well. After all the Welsh have "Cwm Rhonda", and the Scots "Flower of Scotland", which are pretty much National Anthems for those two nations.

4. As I have mentioned earlier, I am not a fan of either the words or the melody of our current Anthem. As to references to God, it does seem bizarre that in these enlightened times a National Anthem should mention a mythical entity of which there is no proof of existence.

5. I think Lewis Hamilton's comment has every right to be taken as seriously as any, for example on these boards. As to a connection with his profession, since he has to stand there listening to it in front of millions of TV viewers every time he wins, I should have thought that was self- evident.

Happy now?

[scottycelt]

No, not by any chance, any more than I was raised in Edinburgh (as the poster who is presumably a compatriot of mine rather oddly asked

May I therefore appear even more odd, and humbly enquire as to which particular part of North Britain proudly boasts the seat of your birthplace and upbringing ... ?

[Flosshilde]

the tedious individuals who first derailed this thread, but there we go.

I thought that Formula 1 was run on roads, not rails? (although the Scalextric version does run on a form of rail).

[Lewis Hamilton] has to stand there listening to it in front of millions of TV viewers every time he wins,

In that case I would have thought that he would want it to be as short as possible. Although if, as some have suggested, he doesn't win very often, perhaps he hasn't had the opportunity to get bored with it?

In case Mr Pee thinks I'm 'derailing' the thread, I'm simply trying to inject a little humour into something that's really hardly worth discussing (no, I'm not talking about motor racing this time). As Anna ppoints out above, 'God save the Queen' is only 10 or 12 seconds behind the German & Australian anthems - hardly worth getting worked up about. True, the Brazilians are somewhat long winded, but that doesn't mean we should emulate them. The shorter the anthem the sooner the winners can get down to silly boy antics & start spraying champagne about.

(& anyway, aren't the winners really the car owners/manufacturers/sponsors? My limited exposure to the circus makes me think that a 'team' can have drivers of different nationalities.)

[Mr Pee]

& anyway, aren't the winners really the car owners/manufacturers/sponsors? My limited exposure to the circus makes me think that a 'team' can have drivers of different nationalities.

Indeed, Floss, a team -why the inverted commas?- can have drivers of different nationalities. Well done. In which case, two anthems are played, first for the team, and then for the driver. If team and driver are of the same nationality, as is the case with Lewis and McLaren, then one anthem is played, once only.

And you don't become Formula One World Champion by not winning very often.

[amateur51]

When the German Formula 1 driver Sebastian Vettel wins, as he frequently does, the rendition of ‘Das Deutchlanlied’ takes 54.4 seconds. The Brazillian anthem was timed at 1 minute 53.2 seconds, while the Formula 1 version of Advance Australia Fair lasts 57.3 seconds.

So, God Save the Queen was timed at 44.4 seconds.

And this is really worth discussing? Hamilton had his 44 seconds of fame, not quite on the Andy Warhol scale of course .......

As to an "English" National Anthem, how about "There'll always be an England"?

Or maybe "Rose of England"?

[Chris Newman]

The melody of the National Anthem is a dirge but Beethoven, Paganini and Ives had a ball with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlqU7CER18c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AilkLHyDa8&playnext=1&list=PL721B3E8D90B58CDD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzNAWbjhwwc