Petrol and Diesel Cars 2035

[ardcarp]

Presumably some clever people in government have thought out all the implications of 'stopping the sale' of petrol and diesel cars in 2035.
Loads of questions abound.

Will manufacturers carry on making them until December 31st 2034?
Will there be a frantic buying spree from petrol-heads as the deadline approaches?
If you buy a car abroad will you be able to drive it in the UK?
What will happen to all the millions of cars that will come up for scrappage?
Will there be enough charging stations?
Will people who live in very rural areas still be able to get around?
Will the ban apply to commercial vehicles?
Ditto public transport vehicles, eg buses and minibuses?
For how long after the deadline will you be able to carry on driving your petrol/diesel car?
Will the 'selling' ban apply to 2nd-hand cars?

I'm as green as can be...but I just foresee problems. Any thoughts?

[pastoralguy]

I'm sure that Boris has all the answers. Just don't try asking him! (Journalists were told not to ask questions at the announcement today although one intrepid BBC chap did and received a 'death stare' from our beloved pm).

[gradus]

Bit of a dilemma for those of us having to acquire a replacement car this year. To diesel or not to diesel? With regular 350 mile journeys electric is not yet the answer.

[Flay]

Where is the electricity for powering all these new vehicles to come from? Will there be "green" capacity?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Where is the electricity for powering all these new vehicles to come from? Will there be "green" capacity?

That does seem likely. Renewable energy is growing faster and more successfully than many had thought possible.

[MrGongGong]

So It would seem that I can help the planet by scapping my 16 year old car that still works fine and buy a brand new one that is made in a big factory and shipped to the UK in a big ship. I can then charge it up using electricity generated by burning coal... and all I need is a spare £20,000 or so.....

Can't see any problem there

I've just driven to Aberdeen from Lincoln.
I would have come on the train BUT there is no way I can get home on Friday evening
maybe fixing the trains so that it's possible to travel long distances in the evening would be a good idea ?

[Dave2002]

I'm sure that Boris has all the answers. Just don't try asking him! (Journalists were told not to ask questions at the announcement today although one intrepid BBC chap did and received a 'death stare' from our beloved pm).

Oooooh. How terrifying!

[Dave2002]

So It would seem that I can help the planet by scapping my 16 year old car that still works fine and buy a brand new one that is made in a big factory and shipped to the UK in a big ship. I can then charge it up using electricity generated by burning coal... and all I need is a spare £20,000 or so.....

Can't see any problem there

I've just driven to Aberdeen from Lincoln.
I would have come on the train BUT there is no way I can get home on Friday evening
maybe fixing the trains so that it's possible to travel long distances in the evening would be a good idea ?

You have highlighted a big issue. In fairness hardly any electricity is now generated in the UK by burning coal, as that is being phased out. That still leaves gas as a fossil fuel to power the nation. Gas is less bad, as the stations are more efficient. Other so-called "green" sources are coming on stream, though of course they are not totally carbon neutral as energy is used in their construction, and probably also concrete and other materials.

In the long term, if sufficient energy can be generated by so called renewable means, electric cars may be the way to go. Unfortunately it doesn't look as though the low carbon generating capacity is going to be sufficient to run the electric replacements for all the petrol and diesel cars within the next 20+ years.

For people who must have cars, and that will include many, the best options may still be to buy efficient petrol or diesel cars, but who wants those?
Given a choice between a large and expensive SUV doing 35mpg, or a very fast and expensive car which will do 150 mph (illegally) on UK roads, and a more efficient car doing 60 mpg or more with a top speed of maybe 80 mph, who is going to want to buy one of those latter vehicles?!

[cloughie]

I just hope I’ll be around in 2035 and if so still be able enough to drive!

[Bryn]

So It would seem that I can help the planet by scapping my 16 year old car that still works fine and buy a brand new one that is made in a big factory and shipped to the UK in a big ship. I can then charge it up using electricity generated by burning coal...

Of electricity generated in 2018, gas accounted for 39.4 per cent whilst coal accounted for
only 5.0 per cent. Renewables share of electricity generation increased to 33.3 per cent in
2018 - a record high - with 111 TWh electricity generated from renewable sources, as a
result of increased capacity. Nuclear generation’s share declined slightly on 2017, due to
reactor outages and required maintenance.

from UK Energy Statistics, 2018 & Q4 2018 (DfB, E & IS Statistical Press Release Date: 28 March 2019)

The proportion of electricity generated from renewables has increased year on year, recently, and that trend is projected to continue apace.

[MrGongGong]

from UK Energy Statistics, 2018 & Q4 2018 (DfB, E & IS Statistical Press Release Date: 28 March 2019)

The proportion of electricity generated from renewables has increased year on year, recently, and that trend is projected to continue apace.

And factoring in the costs of making a new car, getting rid of the old one and the environmental impact of the pollutants in the old one
not to mention the whole problems around cobalt mining and so on ....
YES, renewable energy is a great thing but that's not the whole story

[Dave2002]

from UK Energy Statistics, 2018 & Q4 2018 (DfB, E & IS Statistical Press Release Date: 28 March 2019)

The proportion of electricity generated from renewables has increased year on year, recently, and that trend is projected to continue apace.

Yes, indeed, but a fairly recent R4 programme - about 3-4 weeks ago was informative, and the view was that in the UK for domestic users most energy went on home heating. [Very good programme - I can't remember the exact date, unfortunately]
Replacing oil and gas burnt for heat by electricity would reduce the country's CO2 emissions, providing that the electricity was generated by renewable methods. The UK does not have a very significant nuclear generation progamme at present, so relies on some input from other countries. The load in the winter is such that it may be almost impossible to meet demand for "clean" heat by switching to electricity.

Transport is a signficant part of user's activity, it would perhaps be possible to supply electricity for all the cars that people "need" from renewable resources, so with that information a switch to electric cars is perhaps to be welcomed. However, we should not indulge in politician's double, triple or quadruple accounting, where the same resource (for politics - often money - pounds allocated, but here energy) is ear marked for several diferent projects and areas of activity. This wins elections - apparently - but it's a lie. It is not possible to cheat nature in the same way.

Many of the suggestions to "save the planet" are based on choosing between options, none of which are really good, but some are less bad than others.
Perhaps the biggest impact the UK might have would be in foreign politics and foreign developments. The USA still uses/burns about four times a sustainable amount of energy per capita per year, compared with the UK's "mere" two. China and India have large populations, and while the per capita use of energy is lower than the UK, it is rising. Unfortunately China in particular is using coal fired power stations to meet demand.

While we can take steps in the UK to reduce the effects of CO2 equivalent emissions here, and we should do that, we might also do more good by persuading other countries to adopt different strategies, and even help them to develop the necessary infrastructure, though that would be very hard to do.

[Sir Velo]

I've just driven to Aberdeen from Lincoln.
I would have come on the train BUT there is no way I can get home on Friday evening
maybe fixing the trains so that it's possible to travel long distances in the evening would be a good idea ?

I don't know obviously what time you had to leave Aberdeen but there was a train leaving at 18:18 which would have got into York by midnight so theoretically you could have driven the 55 miles to York, left the car there and then picked it up on the way back. £35 for one way as well, so comparable to the car in terms of cost.

[ardcarp]

I've just driven to Aberdeen from Lincoln.
I would have come on the train BUT there is no way I can get home on Friday evening
maybe fixing the trains so that it's possible to travel long distances in the evening would be a good idea ?

'Fixing' public transport is surely the number one priority? For those who live in fairly remote rural areas it is just a joke. Even in a country town such as Beaminster (Dorset) they are just about to remove the bus service...which was a couple a day at best. For those who don't live in a town one has to drive to the nearest station...and pay for parking. (What if you want to be away for a week?) Then you take the branch line to a bigger station and change trains. It is often extremely difficult to work out timetables, and trains are often late or cancelled. It is often cheaper to fly from a Southern city to a Northern city.

In order to coax people out of their cars the whole transport network must be expanded, must connect up and must be reliable and cheap.

Incidentally, although wind and wave power is on the increase, I doubt it will ever produce anything like the amount of energy needed to power 30 million electric cars. Sadly, nuclear would be the only answer.

[Dave2002]

I don't know obviously what time you had to leave Aberdeen but there was a train leaving at 18:18 which would have got into York by midnight so theoretically you could have driven the 55 miles to York, left the car there and then picked it up on the way back. £35 for one way as well, so comparable to the car in terms of cost.

I think driving to York from Lincoln is nearer 75-80 miles than 55. Google maps gives the drive time between Aberdeen and Lincoln as over 7 hours. I do generally agree with mrgg's comments re train travel, and gettting back in the evening.

However ....

The last train to leave Aberdeen for LIncoln which completes the journey on the same day seems to be the 14:52, with a change at Doncaster. Later trains seem to take around 16-17 hours with 2 or 3 changes. Also, travel on Saturday is sometimes even harder.

It is quite a long way - over 400 miles, so maybe it really is too difficult to do reasonably. Perhaps running the trains so that mrgg can get home from his gigs like this is just a little unreasonable.