An elderly Forumista writes ......

[antongould]

.......and the much-missed John Peel.

Indeed

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If John Peel were the model for current R3 presentation, it would be wonderful. Pity they chose Chris Evans instead.

[antongould]

If John Peel were the model for current R3 presentation, it would be wonderful. Pity they chose Chris Evans instead.

... and who in you opinion are the Chris Evans presenters .... ???

[cloughie]

I think daytime R2 would benefit from some older "popular music" and some light foreign stuff. When I heard it last, a couple of years ago, I could have sworn it was a mid 1980s recording of the Radio One "Steve Wright In The Afternoon" Show with 2018 news on the hour. He even played Christopher Cross!

I agree very much with your first point - Check out Playlists of Monday to Friday daytime playlists and for that matter most evenings also on R2 and all local radio stations and it appears that anything pre1970 has been banned from the airwaves, and most of the music played is from the pop charts with very few album tracks - where is the educational bit the the BBC should be providing? I diagree that it sounds like Steve Wright from the 80s - that would have had much more late 50s and 60s music. Music played seems to be based around the tastes of 35 to 55 year olds with programmes produced and presented by BBC employees of that age group - the Zoe Balls and Jo Whileys who’ve superannuated from Radio 1 bringing their bad music with them!

[greenilex]

The popular music I was crazy about was Lonnie Donnigan, Tab Hunter, early rock and skiffle and then Elvis, but by his time I was on to LvB.

We don’t hear new versions of any of it, as far as I know...?

I do switch off presenters who gush.

[LMcD]

Radio 2 was the last bastion of music BROADcasting and provided a running survey, more or less, of the history of recorded music; but now it almost has an allergy to its former self.

A few years back they'd commissioned Danny Green to do a show based on his father's (Benny Green) wondrous celebration and exploration of the great American songbook. A Radio 2 feature for some twenty years.

I was delighted at this, but when I tuned in, it was that repertoire but in the worst pop renditions (The More I See You/Chris Montez, Blue Moon/The Marcels and other desperate la-la-la covers). Clearly the network had since developed a fear, a resentment even, of a genre that was once so much its staple.

Perhaps it was something of a miracle that 'The Organist Entertains' hung in there till 2018; and yet, thank goodness, the BBC Concert Orchestra is still very much present.

I've been to several Friday Night Is Music Night recordings and they really are a good band. Far better than you'd get on the average cigar!

Therein, actually, is a point relevant to this discussion.

What they call the Millennial's now are very well educated, but they can be terribly lacking in historical breadth. They're so in the moment that they rarely have time for a backward glance.

Take the cigar joke, for example. You'd have to explain that to too many people now who wouldn't know that fancy, expensive cigars the likes of Montecristo had (have) decorative paper bands on them which were originally to protect the white gloves of gentleman attending gala balls and the like.

Now, fine cigars and gala balls were not a feature of my growing up, but it's just one of those things I know.

I have two nephews well into their twenties and countless are the times they'll shut me down for referencing something that is not of their immediate ken.

And this is why it's right to mourn the shrinking scope of music radio, as LMcD does. Yes, there all kinds of wonderful things on Spotify and YouTube that one can go and look for, but it's not the same as the chance encounter one used to find on the radio.

Indisputably, I was born middle aged, practically asking the midwife for my pipe and slippers the moment I popped out of the womb. Consequently, I have a closed ear to most pop music, but I remember when I used to listen to Sounds of Jazz with Peter Clayton on Radio 2 on Sunday evenings.

Now, in those days, discerning pop pickers may recall, Radio 1 had the VHF frequency up till 10pm with John Peel before handing over to Radio 2. So as not to miss the top of my show I'd tune in early and hear the most terrible stuff that he'd be playing, but when I later became a working radio producer having to work with pop music, that exposure (also to Peel's commentary) turned out to be invaluable.

I came to the field with a degree of context and that's the great value of the chance encounter.


NB. Btw, Penny Gore did a stint on Radio3 a couple of weeks back and it was a delight. The radio stayed on throughout.

At the risk of sounding pretentious, I would say that the music and performances which are the subject of this thread are part of our musical heritage, and deserve to be heard more widely, if only to allow people who may be unfamiliar with them to pass judgment on them. I'm willing to bet that some would find them rewarding and enjoyable. If I may offer just a couple of examples of the delights on offer:
* The sheer artistry of Benny Goodman, both in small groups and leading his big band (not forgetting Mozart's Clarinet Concerto and Bartok's 'Contrasts'). One of the most magical moments in 20th century music has to be Jess Stacy's contribution to 'Sing, Sing, Sing' at the famous Carnegie Hall concert.
* Ella Fitzgerald's way with lyrics.
Many years ago, I was chatting to the proprietor of the 'Discurio' record shop in Mayfair and asked him to explain the outstanding musicality of the dance bands. 'They were playing for their families and probably for their lives', he said.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... and who in you opinion are the Chris Evans presenters .... ???

Quite right - the second sentence was a silly comment.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Many years ago, I was chatting to the proprietor of the 'Discurio' record shop in Mayfair and asked him to explain the outstanding musicality of the dance bands. 'They were playing for their families and probably for their lives', he said.

But the same can be said of many dozens of other, third-rate Dance Bands from that era (not to mention most of the Soviet era Symphonists - oh, I just did) without the same "outstanding Musicality" resulting. It takes more than simple biographical circumstances to "explain" why some of them excelled whilst most others ... didn't.

[cloughie]

Quite right - the second sentence was a silly comment.

I know that Chris Evans had a strong following on Radio 2 but I have never liked his style. Johnny Walker’s Drivetime programme was a regular listen for me - then Evans took over and ruined it, Terry Wogan retired from the Breakfast programme - Chris Evans took over - yes he ruined that too! As Stan Freberg said in the spoof recording of the ‘Banana Boat Song’ - too loud, man!

[BBMmk2]

Just one other thought - perhaps Billy Joel could be coaxed back into the studio for an album of standards with a big band!

Now that would be a must buy for me. Like big bands and a fan of Billy Joel. I play his music on keyboards.

[cloughie]

Now that would be a must buy for me. Like big bands and a fan of Billy Joel. I play his music on keyboards.

Have you arranged any of his songs Bbm?

[Andy Freude]

Quite right - the second sentence was a silly comment.

I didn't take that too literally! I took it to mean presenters whose main purpose is to sound enthusiastic and jolly - with nothing too heavy. Apparently, we're not allowed to mention names. Some people like 'enthusiasm'. I'm not keen because (am I a cynic? yes) I think it's just another act and that as soon as they're off air they go back to being normal human beings. It's false, all designed to have a particular response in the listener. Hidden persuasion: enthusiasm begets enthusiasm. I can decide for myself what I want to enthuse about. Isn't it somewhat alienating to hear people enthusing/gushing about something which then leaves you cold?

I think there's a natural wish for the music that we really enjoy to be enjoyed and appreciated by others, now and in times to come. But very little popular music is like that - it catches the spirit of the times, is hugely popular, and then the mobile vulgus moves on. The recording industry has altered that to a degree, but not entirely. Classical musics, it seems to me, are rare in surviving for centuries. Being written down was/is the equivalent of recording, whereas the contemporary popular music was forgotten (except where classical musicians used and transformed it). Jazz, on the other hand, is a different phenomenon. All just my thoughts.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I didn't take that too literally! I took it to mean presenters whose main purpose is to sound enthusiastic and jolly - with nothing too heavy.

- the "measured" approach is still available (Penny Gore, Donald Macleod, Jonathan Swain, SM-P) but normal Service offers Little to allow listeners to come to Music on their own terms: it is as if the Beeb doesn't believe that today's audiences have the necessary attention span, and will switch off without hyperbolic enthusiasm every ten minutes.

(It's not just R3 - continuity announcers between telly programmes have to "sex-up" content, so that "our [meaning the BBC's] latest drama serial" becomes "our [meaning the nation's] latest obsession". A combination of panic ["pleeease don't switch over, you'll like David Tennant here just as much as you will on Channel 4 - and without adverts!"] and patronising ("We're the BBC, you can trust us to tell you that if this isn't obsessing you, it's not our fault".)

As to the Music of the Big Band era - given so many radio stations (national and local, Beeb and independent) there should indeed be room for regular broadcasts alongside all the commercial Pop stuff from 1980 onwards. But where? Cutting out from R3 broadcasts of works from the Leiden Choirbooks, or a series of programmes on Krenek and his contemporaries (to mention other Music that is "our heritage" and not broadcast anywhere) in order to make way for it seems to me to be a very bad idea indeed.

(I've previously suggested on many occasions the need for a "Radio 3 Extra" station - perhaps there's also a need for a "Radio 2 Extra", to accommodate the Music LMcD is talking about?)

[vinteuil]

As to the Music of the Big Band era - given so many radio stations (national and local, Beeb and independent) there should indeed be room for regular broadcasts alongside all the commercial Pop stuff from 1980 onwards. But where? Cutting out from R3 broadcasts of works from the Leiden Choirbooks, or a series of programmes on Krenek and his contemporaries (to mention other Music that is "our heritage" and not broadcast anywhere) in order to make way for it seems to me to be a very bad idea indeed.

... more ars subtilior ! more Dunstaple!! more Ferneyhough!!! more Barrett!!!

.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... more ars subtilior ! more Dunstaple!! more Ferneyhough!!! more Barrett!!!
.

Indeed! (I cannot help feeling that the lack of a BBC4 documentary commemorating RB's 60th birthday a couple of months ago - and of BF's 75th a couple of years ago - will bring far greater annoyance to historians in 50 years time than that on George Benjamin will offer useful material. But the idea of there being a BBC in 5 years' time - let alone 50 - is becoming increasingly unlikely.)