Amy Winehouse RIP

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  • Lateralthinking1

    #16
    As the Rolling Stone website confirms tonight, Amy joins the list of singers and musicians in popular music who died at the age of 27. For a long time, that list has been well-known in music circles. It includes Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain and Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones. How sad and how predictable and my thoughts go out to her family. What now though of the legacy of her celebrity? The BRIT school for Performing Arts and Technology, which she attended, is located at the northern end of my borough. While its objectives are to be applauded - how far we have come since the exclusiveness of the Italia Conti - its successes to date have at best been variable in terms of producing real quality. The prevalent culture has not been wholly conducive to its aims with "proper" popular music having to be X-Factorised almost by order. The Jewish girl from Southgate bucked this trend and by some way. Maybe it was her earlier experience at the Susi Earnshaw and Sylvia Young Theatre schools. Wherever there was Amy, there was drama. More to the point, there was innate talent and frequent talk of her as the new Billie Holiday. It would be wrong to ignore the destructive allure of being the kind of icon who departs early. And, of course, there was that other familiar category - the adult who happened to have been a child for whom the stage was an alternative home. At least Brian Wilson and the late Michael Jackson were lucky enough to be able to manage a longer stay. Still, the essential problem with stardom of any note is fully documented in history. Some can cope with it while others can't. As Jessica Savitch once wrote "The idea of stardom was difficult to grasp. It was like being schizophrenic; there was her, the woman on television, and the real me".

    Amy was real and unreal, in each respect excessively so, and whatever the direct cause of her death turns out to be, indirectly it will be that this was her burden. I didn't want to like her. She was introduced to us early on as a foul-mouthed critic of her contemporaries. She seemed to have the kinds of compulsions that are almost scary to see in a young adult. You marvel at their worldliness but only to the extent that it obscures the vulnerability underneath. Neither makes the observer feel altogether comfortable. There were also reservations about the records. This has been the era when songs have been released in two versions. There is the obligatory dirty version and the cleaned up, radio friendly one. I'm someone who finds things easier to appreciate in their context. The f word is fine in its place but can demean and offend in mainstream output. In fact, it risks the potential for some artists to have longevity and to be seen in the longer term as a part of the tradition. Her voice, her songwriting abilities and the stronger sides to her personality, including a look that was strikingly charismatic, crashed through all of those fundamental doubts in me. Anyone with half a musical brain could tell that she had a very natural talent. Will she ultimately be seen as a jazz singer? Probably not but she was far closer to one than the Top 40 generally allows. Yes, she certainly stood out from all the others while being undoubtedly highly influential. As has already been well documented, she was the catalyst to a new era of female singers. More importantly, she was instrumental in reintroducing the lost art of songcraft to commercial viability. At last, real songs actually sold again and to the young if not exclusively, boosted by Mark Ronson's production and industry awards.

    Over in the States, the buyers of popular music never went through quite the hiatus that we were forced to endure here. However, certain acts like Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings were similarly viewed as revivalists while offering modern approaches. That the musicians of that band should have often accompanied Amy live, and indeed that she also dared to cover reggae artists of the calibre of Toots and the Maytals, will count more than she probably imagined in future years. It will help her to be contextualized as a classic artist even if she was also of her time, as they all are. I nearly got to see her live on several occasions and wish that I had done so. What I think stopped me was the way in which she so easily brought out the ducking stool mentality in largely mild-mannered people. It always astonishes and deeply depresses me how so many have the natural perspectives of those who enjoyed Victorian freak shows but then this is aided and abetted by the press. As with Pete Doherty, a lesser talent, our legal system went easy on her drug addictions while the tabloids faked concerns about their wider impacts. Regrettably, harsh rehabilitation schemes are the only kind answer to these musicians. Punishment isn't the way - they do that to themselves enough - but nor is it thoughtless mockery or gleeful condemnation. So there are lessons for society to learn here yet again about its responsibilities to those of an unusually artistic temperament. I see that Tony Bennett was characteristically trying to help her at the end, bless him. If only there were more of his kind. As for people like Blake Fielder-Civil, they should be seen for what they are, essentially junk, unutterably evil, and hard to view as anything other than disposable. The innocent sixties they are not.
    Last edited by Guest; 24-07-11, 11:03.

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    • Mahlerei

      #17
      There's such an air on unreality around these celebrities when the die, naturally or otherwise. Some of the adulatory piffle I've heard today is little short of an elevation to sainthood. Not on the scale of the mass grief/mythologising of Michael Jackson, but still horribly OTT nonetheless.

      And one poster bemoaned the fact she died alone, but then we all do.

      Still, it's always sad to see life - and talent - squandered so.

      Comment

      • Nick Armstrong
        Host
        • Nov 2010
        • 26575

        #18
        Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
        Interesting that we seem to have have a thread bemoaning the self-inflicted death of a crack-addled, over-hyped celeb, (who as far as I'm aware has never appeared on Radio3) , and yet not a note of sympathy on these boards for the 90 or so innocents shot and blown to pieces in Norway at the hands of a gun-wielding lunatic.

        Amy Winehouse had a choice. The victims in Oslo and on Utoya island did not.

        That thought had occurred to me too, Mr Pee. The Norwegian events, and their consequences in terms of trauma, suffering and grief, defy imagination...


        "...the isle is full of noises,
        Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
        Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
        Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

        Comment

        • MrGongGong
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 18357

          #19
          Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
          Interesting that we seem to have have a thread bemoaning the self-inflicted death of a crack-addled, over-hyped celeb, (who as far as I'm aware has never appeared on Radio3) , and yet not a note of sympathy on these boards for the 90 or so innocents shot and blown to pieces in Norway at the hands of a gun-wielding lunatic.

          Amy Winehouse had a choice. The victims in Oslo and on Utoya island did not.
          I'm not a fan of hers
          but the death of someone so obviously talented so young is tragic and a waste
          as are the events in Norway

          Interesting that we have the usual nonsense and complete lack of humanity from mr Predictable , its obviously a conspiracy by the left !
          you really are a sad little man

          and as for this nonsense

          "
          Never heard of her.

          Next!"


          Will the most ignorant form a line please with you at the front ! (you can take your fingers out of your ears now !)

          Comment

          • Globaltruth
            Host
            • Nov 2010
            • 4303

            #20
            Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
            I'm not a fan of hers
            but the death of someone so obviously talented so young is tragic and a waste
            as are the events in Norway

            Interesting that we have the usual nonsense and complete lack of humanity from mr Predictable , its obviously a conspiracy by the left !
            you really are a sad little man

            and as for this nonsense

            "
            Never heard of her.

            Next!"


            Will the most ignorant form a line please with you at the front ! (you can take your fingers out of your ears now !)
            I don't usually contribute posts of the 'Hear Hear' variety, as I think they add little, but on this occasion I really do applaud MrGG for the previous post, which I totally agree with.

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            • scottycelt

              #21
              Originally posted by Caliban View Post

              That thought had occurred to me too, Mr Pee. The Norwegian events, and their consequences in terms of trauma, suffering and grief, defy imagination...


              Precisely ... I think many people, including myself, are still completely dazed by the Norwegian horror and have yet to fully come to terms with what has actually occurred. Most who died were mere kids, after all, in the full flush of youthful enthusiasm and zest for life itself. Such an evil act is almost disabling to proper, rational thought, never mind appropriate comment.

              Amy Winehouse was a very talented singer in her genre who happened to have an addiction problem which ultimately destroyed her. God rest the souls of those who perished in two very different tragedies.

              I also have this sudden and stark reminder that I often take my own living and breathing very much for granted at times ...

              Comment

              • hackneyvi

                #22
                Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
                Interesting that we seem to have have a thread bemoaning the self-inflicted death of a ... celeb, (who as far as I'm aware has never appeared on Radio3) , and yet not a note of sympathy on these boards for the 90 or so innocents shot and blown to pieces in Norway
                Amy was played on R3 a few weeks ago in the lovely company of other British songwriters - Handel, Arne and Britten.

                And still no word of sympathy for the Norwegians on the boards. Do you feel your own and your fellow posters' silence on the subject communicates something, Pee?

                Comment

                • Nick Armstrong
                  Host
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 26575

                  #23
                  Originally posted by hackneyvi View Post

                  And still no word of sympathy for the Norwegians on the boards. Do you feel your own and your fellow posters' silence on the subject communicates something, Pee?
                  I don't follow. Have you not read this thread? Do you mean that there isn't a separate thread?

                  And had there been silence about the Norwegian atrocities, what do you think that might have communicated?

                  "...the isle is full of noises,
                  Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                  Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                  Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                  Comment

                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30520

                    #24
                    It is something of a custom to begin tribute threads on the death of well-known people who have contributed to our cultural and musical lives. If people have nothing to say, they usually remain silent.

                    It is also a custom to begin threads on UK and world news items which have particular importance or resoance.

                    In these two cases mentioned, one thread was begun, the second wasn't. I don't think much is gained by trying to combine them here. Please start a separate thread if you wish to continue discussing the Norwegian tragedy, or indeed if you wish to start a discussion which links the two tragedies.
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • salymap
                      Late member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 5969

                      #25
                      I've never heard AW sing but am sorry that any 27 year old should die like that.

                      As to the Norwegian disaster I agree with Scottcelt. It is so huge and terrible that I, for one, felt unable to mention it without knowing all the facts. It shows that mindless violence can erupt anywhere from a diseased mind. Norway will never seem the same to me.

                      Comment

                      • salymap
                        Late member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 5969

                        #26
                        Sorry ff, mine crossed with yours. You are right, they should be separate.

                        Comment

                        • teamsaint
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 25233

                          #27
                          what this mostly proves is that message boards can, at times, be pretty bad places.

                          The best possible outcome from this sad event is that the lauding of , and quest for fame that is so deeply embedded in society now, is shown up to be the disaster that it truly is.

                          We will not be a healthy society until people feel valued and worthwhile doing ordinary jobs, and until "celebrities" are treated as normal human beings.


                          and this will not happen while we are being expolited by a ruthless elite.
                          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                          I am not a number, I am a free man.

                          Comment

                          • hackneyvi

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                            I don't follow. Have you not read this thread?
                            I meant that Pee's post seemed unsympathetic to anyone, like most of those following seemed unsympathetic in response. Predictably but not necessarily. Casting first stones, and all that.

                            We could all always make more effort to be peaceable in some circumstances, is what I'm implying and I'd hoped might be inferred. And then, I'm asking what Pee feels do his own and the collective silences on Norway say that is instructive.

                            i hope that's clearer.

                            Comment

                            • amateur51

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
                              Interesting that we seem to have have a thread bemoaning the self-inflicted death of a crack-addled, over-hyped celeb, (who as far as I'm aware has never appeared on Radio3) , and yet not a note of sympathy on these boards for the 90 or so innocents shot and blown to pieces in Norway at the hands of a gun-wielding lunatic.

                              Amy Winehouse had a choice. The victims in Oslo and on Utoya island did not.
                              There is now such a thread, Mr Pee.

                              These events are tragedies of different sorts, it's a shame that you seek to rank them in order of 'importance'

                              Your reference to Winehouse's having a choice shows a poor understanding of the nature of addiction.

                              And 'over-hyped' is tautologous
                              Last edited by Guest; 24-07-11, 11:15. Reason: idiocy

                              Comment

                              • Mandryka

                                #30
                                Amy Winehouse's 'role' as a tabloid fixture deterred me from exploring her recorded oeuvre.

                                A friend of a friend of mine was a sax player in one of her touring bands. He found Amy herself to be 'lovely' but said the peoiple around her were 'lower than vermin'.

                                She made only two albums and her music was definitely overshadowed by her private life: 'unfulfilled potential' doesn't even begin to cover it.

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