Musical angst

[Boilk]

...it's striking how often 20th century composers of widely diverging aesthetics turned to modalism as an alternative to atonality and serialism - either through some unspecific change in thinking ... or some perceived need to draw on a distant past

More logical than “striking” to my mind. And not necessarily a need to draw on the distant past. If you’re going to operate within a framework of 12 semitones, you’ve got complete democratisation of pitch classes (non-hierarchical atonality) at one end of the spectrum, and at the other presumably a completely hierarchical pitch structure, whereby a tonic is the most important pitch. Reject both “extremes” and by default you’re somewhere in between.

[Quarky]

. What Hoffman actually said in respect of the 5th was:

In view of disagreement by the experts about Hoffmann's views, his entire lengthy and detailed review may be found on pages 95-112 of "The Critical Reception of Beethoven's Compositions by His German Contemporaries, volume 2 , pages 95-112":

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=unpresssamples

Probably more to your taste!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In view of disagreement by the experts about Hoffmann's views

No need to be sarky, Quarky - when it comes to our own individual responses to Music, we're all "the experts". Hofmann's reactions are of historical and general interest, but what happens to him when he hears this Music just doesn't match at all what happens to me when I do.

(But thanks for the Link )

[MrGongGong]

More logical than “striking” to my mind. And not necessarily a need to draw on the distant past. If you’re going to operate within a framework of 12 semitones, you’ve got complete democratisation of pitch classes (non-hierarchical atonality) at one end of the spectrum, and at the other presumably a completely hierarchical pitch structure, whereby a tonic is the most important pitch. Reject both “extremes” and by default you’re somewhere in between.

I've not been following this in great detail
but I do think there are many other ways in which to listen.
There are many musics in the world which don't correspond to this (and not all of them are from far away.....https://www.palgrave.com/gp/book/9781349184927)

[Boilk]

I've not been following this in great detail but I do think there are many other ways in which to listen.
There are many musics in the world which don't correspond to this (and not all of them are from far away.....https://www.palgrave.com/gp/book/9781349184927)

Agreed entirely, that's why I mentioned (in responding to Serial_Apologist's post #44) the caveat of operating within the circumscribed universe of 12 semitones - something of a Hobson's choice for most composers until around the mid-20th century. The alternate musical universes opened up by tape machines, samplers, computer software, etc. have thankfully unshackled composers and performers from such an artificial construct as the tempered scale.

[pastoralguy]

when it comes to our own individual responses to Music, we're all "the experts)

I'm sure someone on Slipped Disc told me I wasn't listening to music 'correctly!' Maybe it's the whisky...