Fun and games with ballot papers

[Joseph K]

… and it sounds like Bernie Sanders has the odds stacked even higher against him...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpXJvWSa4FQ

[cloughie]

Possibly not, now that the ERG can no longer hold the government to ransom.

What’s changed? The ERG are the government! The one-nation notion is a myth - it appears to exclude Scotland and Northern Ireland! When Johnson did his A-Bs he could have said from the Scillies to Shetland!

[ardcarp]

,... and it'll be interesting to see if there is any place for Mr Rees-Mogg.

Radio 4's Dead Ringers was a bit of fun.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000c4sj

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Radio 4's Dead Ringers was a bit of fun.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000c4sj

- I've never heard "Burnley" pronounced with such horrified contempt ... and then topped by "Scunthorpe"! Very naughty.

[Serial_Apologist]

Radio 4's Dead Ringers was a bit of fun.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000c4sj

Brilliant programme. Makes one wonder how they always manage to get such good materials together at point-blank notice.

[LMcD]

What’s changed? The ERG are the government! The one-nation notion is a myth - it appears to exclude Scotland and Northern Ireland! When Johnson did his A-Bs he could have said from the Scillies to Shetland!

I did wonder whether he meant just one nation, i.e. England, but that would overlook the fact that England is now two nations, divided into those who are convinced that we'll all be better off after we leave the EU and those who have a more than sneaking suspicion that any benefits will not be anything like evenly distributed.

[muzzer]

I did wonder whether he meant just one nation, i.e. England, but that would overlook the fact that England is now two nations, divided into those who are convinced that we'll all be better off after we leave the EU and those who have a more than sneaking suspicion that any benefits will not be anything like evenly distributed.

But unfortunately both governed, if that’s the word for what will be an elective dictatorship, by the same gang of bluffers. It will be their nation or no nation. Within months the left will be crying out for a moderate leader with a vision, and it will already be too late. Johnson will talk centre and act right wing.

[Frances_iom]

There was an interesting comment in one of the post election vox-pop features in which a long-time Labour voter but non-supporter of Corbyn stated that the party had gone into decline when younger brother Ed (him of the two kitchens) was voted in instead of David - the Unions pushed for Ed as they thought he was the most pliable but he came across as totally out of touch with anywhere outside of the M25.

[LHC]

There was an interesting comment in one of the post election vox-pop features in which a long-time Labour voter but non-supporter of Corbyn stated that the party had gone into decline when younger brother Ed (him of the two kitchens) was voted in instead of David - the Unions pushed for Ed as they thought he was the most pliable but he came across as totally out of touch with anywhere outside of the M25.

I remember reading an article in 2017 which put forward the (somewhat hyperbolic) view that Ed Miliband was responsible for the Tory Government, the decline of the Labour Party, the Syrian civil war and the rise of ISIS, the Brexit referendum etc etc.

From the moment he decided to step into the political big time, Ed Miliband was a cumulative catastrophe, a snowballing avalanche of political calamity, destroying everything he touched, creating immense collateral damage as he went, and unleashing forces he couldn’t control — the repercussions of which will reverberate for generations.

https://medium.com/@craig_walmsley/this-is-all-ed-milibands-fault-f221341eb108

[LMcD]

But unfortunately both governed, if that’s the word for what will be an elective dictatorship, by the same gang of bluffers. It will be their nation or no nation. Within months the left will be crying out for a moderate leader with a vision, and it will already be too late. Johnson will talk centre and act right wing.

Speaking on 'BH' this morning, Michael Cockerell, who is generally acknowledged as knowing a thing or two about PMs, pointed out that Harold MacMillan and Harold Wilson both moved to the centre when they had comfortable majorities. I think it's more likely that the left will continue to believe that its policies are right (i.e. correct) and the electors wrong, and will continue to strive to achieve its dream, namely a truly socialist party more interested in its own purity than in government. The soon-to-be ex-Shadow Chancellor, interviewed on the Andrew Marr show, clearly seems to believe that the message must continue unchanged whoever is promoting it.
Football managers who've lost blame referees and VAR, and politicians who've lost publicly blame the media and privately blame the voters

[eighthobstruction]

<<" he(Len McCluskey) trained his fire on Remain-backing members of the Shadow Cabinet, as well as centrist MPs who "hankered after the New Labour past", the Unite general secretary said Labour needed "a new leader early in the near future" who could "understand the communities that gave birth to the Labour movement".>>....Sorry Len you are just as nutty, off the mark blind and deaf as JC and JMcD....push off

Ed but I did like his saying the phrase : "incontinent rush of policies"

[Joseph K]

I think it's more likely that the left will continue to believe that its policies are right (i.e. correct) and the electors wrong, and will continue to strive to achieve its dream, namely a truly socialist party more interested in its own purity than in government.

As has been pointed out, Labour's policies were popular, as well as being correct i.e. precisely what the country needs. Foremost for me amongst the many excellent policies was that of a Green New Deal, to deal with the urgent existential crisis posed by global warming. Do you think the policies were incorrect?

Obviously Brexit played a large role in our defeat - it's been pointed out before on this thread that Tory Remainers held their noses and voted Tory, and I have read that even many Remainers thought the result of the referendum ought to be respected.

You make a false dichotomy between purity and government, for if Labour had been 'purer' that is to say, more unified, and had got behind Corbyn rather than constantly making headlines by joining/inventing other parties, saying they wanted to knife him and generally undermining him, then ultimately backing a second referendum, I think it would have done better, certainly.

And yes, we blame the media. The media bias was/is incredibly obvious. Do you dispute that? Not that I think Corbyn's campaign was perfect, but it has been so glaringly obvious how much the establishment (and I count many Labour MPs amongst it) despises rational and compassionate socialism.

[Stanfordian]

Speaking on 'BH' this morning, Michael Cockerell, who is generally acknowledged as knowing a thing or two about PMs, pointed out that Harold MacMillan and Harold Wilson both moved to the centre when they had comfortable majorities. I think it's more likely that the left will continue to believe that its policies are right (i.e. correct) and the electors wrong, and will continue to strive to achieve its dream, namely a truly socialist party more interested in its own purity than in government. The soon-to-be ex-Shadow Chancellor, interviewed on the Andrew Marr show, clearly seems to believe that the message must continue unchanged whoever is promoting it.
Football managers who've lost blame referees and VAR, and politicians who've lost publicly blame the media and privately blame the voters

Here, here!

It is not an easy process to look at oneself.

[Cockney Sparrow]

<<" he(Len McCluskey) trained his fire on Remain-backing members of the Shadow Cabinet, as well as centrist MPs who "hankered after the New Labour past", the Unite general secretary said Labour needed "a new leader early in the near future" who could "understand the communities that gave birth to the Labour movement".>>....Sorry Len you are just as nutty, off the mark blind and deaf as JC and JMcD....push off

Ed but I did like his saying the phrase : "incontinent rush of policies"

I might not recollect properly, but didn't Ed Milliband unlock the electoral keys to Mc Luskey/Momentum and their disastrous grip on the NEC/party by enabling a vote for anyone who cared to take Labour to the left (perceived as far left) for only an few pounds and no proper membership?

I haven't followed the twists and turns in any meaningful sense since. Like David Milliband decided, the sensible thing is to go away and do something more constructive and less frustrating for the next 10 or more years. I have maintained membership (I am an impure socialist, I am a working class roots anti Tory) with the purpose of voting for an electable leader in the centre right, and with a very different NEC, shadow cabinet and senior "advisors"/strategists.

Living in their fantasy land, and sheer incompetence, has let the poor, the vulnerable, the huge number of "just about managing" to the mercy of Johnson and his faction. Pigs might fly - he might be one nation, he might ameliorate the suffering - that's all I have to hope for, for the next 5 (10?) years.

[Andy Freude]

As has been pointed out, Labour's policies were popular, as well as being correct

Whether Labour's policies were 'correct' or not in an abstract sense, the evidence is that they were wrong for this moment in the country's political situation. That's the hard fact. Heads and brick walls come to mind.