Fun and games with ballot papers

[jayne lee wilson]

Not only this, but vote to lose the NHS, vote for climate catastrophe! The latter point is the most important one of this election, since our time is running out where that's concerned, and the Tory promise to decarbonise by 2050 would far too late and thus completely pointless.

So, people who vote Tory are consigning future generations to climate catastrophe and ultimately the end of civilisation as we know it. Apres moi le deluge, I suppose...

Absolutely.... USE YOUR VOTE, EVERYONE, TACTICALLY IF NECESSARY. A minority Tory Govt., a hung Parliament is vitally better than the disaster of a clear Tory majority....at the very least it gives us some hope....

As for poetry....

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/dec/09/11-odes-to-europe-poets-brexit-carol-ann-duffy-andrew-mcmillan

[MrGongGong]

It might be worth reminding the Brexit supporting folks that to ensure we really DO leave the EU they should put a cross against BOTH the Conservative & Brexit Party candidates

[Bella Kemp]

Not only this, but vote to lose the NHS, vote for climate catastrophe! The latter point is the most important one of this election, since our time is running out where that's concerned, and the Tory promise to decarbonise by 2050 would far too late and thus completely pointless.

So, people who vote Tory are consigning future generations to climate catastrophe and ultimately the end of civilisation as we know it. Apres moi le deluge, I suppose...

I'm not quite sure that a Tory government would spell the end of civilisation! - we are not the only country in the world and, besides, it is up to us as individuals to protect the planet: the situation is far too serious to be left to governments (especially, dare I add, socialist governments that promise the earth (sic) and always fail.)
A hung parliament would probably be our best outcome - but, gosh, why can't Tories and Labour alike simply put aside their differences and work together in order truly to solve our problems (and provide us with a government that truly reflects the wishes of the people). A little bit of compromise goes a long way.

[MrGongGong]

I'm not quite sure that a Tory government would spell the end of civilisation!

I'm assuming you aren't sick, disabled or poor ?

[cloughie]

Tory three-figure majority on the way.

Sometime in the next forty-eight hours, I fully expect a BBC interviewer to ask a senior Labour figure: ‘So: if you are elected, when can we expect the proms to start?’

Middle of July!

[Serial_Apologist]

Middle of July!

Make the BBC pay by subscription only?

[oddoneout]

My concern at the influence of the press started many years ago and recent events have done nothing to diminish that concern, quite the reverse.
This https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ss-lies-labour
makes me question yet again the relevance of political elections if government strategy and policy making is done elsewhere. And some worry about 'unelected Brussels bureaucrats'...

[Joseph K]

I'm not quite sure that a Tory government would spell the end of civilisation! - we are not the only country in the world and, besides, it is up to us as individuals to protect the planet: the situation is far too serious to be left to governments (especially, dare I add, socialist governments that promise the earth (sic) and always fail.)

True, we are not the only country in the world. That doesn't mean we shouldn't act positively as a nation. Is it not painfully obvious that an individual can only have limited action in protecting the planet - aside from the obvious necessity of voting Labour for a Green New Deal? Only the government can effect a rapid decarbonisation of our energy supply - so when you write 'the situation is far too serious to be left to government' that is the exact opposite of the truth. It's twaddle.

I take it you have never used the NHS before, since you appear to hate socialism so much? Corbyn's proposals would take us more in line with Scandinavia, not to mention France and Germany, in terms to spending & tax.

A hung parliament would probably be our best outcome - but, gosh, why can't Tories and Labour alike simply put aside their differences and work together in order truly to solve our problems (and provide us with a government that truly reflects the wishes of the people). A little bit of compromise goes a long way.

Why can't Labour and Conservatives put aside their differences? This strikes me as a bit of a puerile question. Obviously the answer is Labour generally cannot countenance the austerity that has resulted in over a hundred thousand deaths, by shifting the debt incurred from bailing out the banks onto the shoulders of the weakest in society - in other words, the poor get capitalism in the form of austerity while the rich (bankers) get socialism; I have pointed this out more than once on this forum - has it got through to you yet?

[Conchis]

.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/51294/waiting-for-the-barbarians

.



.

I’ve always felt Cavafy loses a helluva lot in translation.

[vinteuil]

I’ve always felt Cavafy loses a helluva lot in translation.

... o I so agree.

Περιμένοντας τους Bαρβάρους


— Τι περιμένουμε στην αγορά συναθροισμένοι;

Είναι οι βάρβαροι να φθάσουν σήμερα.

— Γιατί μέσα στην Σύγκλητο μια τέτοια απραξία;
Τι κάθοντ’ οι Συγκλητικοί και δεν νομοθετούνε;

Γιατί οι βάρβαροι θα φθάσουν σήμερα.
Τι νόμους πια θα κάμουν οι Συγκλητικοί;
Οι βάρβαροι σαν έλθουν θα νομοθετήσουν.

—Γιατί ο αυτοκράτωρ μας τόσο πρωί σηκώθη,
και κάθεται στης πόλεως την πιο μεγάλη πύλη
στον θρόνο επάνω, επίσημος, φορώντας την κορώνα;

Γιατί οι βάρβαροι θα φθάσουν σήμερα.
Κι ο αυτοκράτωρ περιμένει να δεχθεί
τον αρχηγό τους. Μάλιστα ετοίμασε
για να τον δώσει μια περγαμηνή. Εκεί
τον έγραψε τίτλους πολλούς κι ονόματα.

— Γιατί οι δυο μας ύπατοι κ’ οι πραίτορες εβγήκαν
σήμερα με τες κόκκινες, τες κεντημένες τόγες·
γιατί βραχιόλια φόρεσαν με τόσους αμεθύστους,
και δαχτυλίδια με λαμπρά, γυαλιστερά σμαράγδια·
γιατί να πιάσουν σήμερα πολύτιμα μπαστούνια
μ’ ασήμια και μαλάματα έκτακτα σκαλιγμένα;

Γιατί οι βάρβαροι θα φθάσουν σήμερα·
και τέτοια πράγματα θαμπώνουν τους βαρβάρους.

—Γιατί κ’ οι άξιοι ρήτορες δεν έρχονται σαν πάντα
να βγάλουνε τους λόγους τους, να πούνε τα δικά τους;

Γιατί οι βάρβαροι θα φθάσουν σήμερα·
κι αυτοί βαρυούντ’ ευφράδειες και δημηγορίες.

— Γιατί ν’ αρχίσει μονομιάς αυτή η ανησυχία
κ’ η σύγχυσις. (Τα πρόσωπα τι σοβαρά που εγίναν).
Γιατί αδειάζουν γρήγορα οι δρόμοι κ’ η πλατέες,
κι όλοι γυρνούν στα σπίτια τους πολύ συλλογισμένοι;

Γιατί ενύχτωσε κ’ οι βάρβαροι δεν ήλθαν.
Και μερικοί έφθασαν απ’ τα σύνορα,
και είπανε πως βάρβαροι πια δεν υπάρχουν.

__

Και τώρα τι θα γένουμε χωρίς βαρβάρους.
Οι άνθρωποι αυτοί ήσαν μια κάποια λύσις.

[LMcD]

... o I so agree.

Περιμένοντας τους Bαρβάρους


— Τι περιμένουμε στην αγορά συναθροισμένοι;

Είναι οι βάρβαροι να φθάσουν σήμερα.

— Γιατί μέσα στην Σύγκλητο μια τέτοια απραξία;
Τι κάθοντ’ οι Συγκλητικοί και δεν νομοθετούνε;

Γιατί οι βάρβαροι θα φθάσουν σήμερα.
Τι νόμους πια θα κάμουν οι Συγκλητικοί;
Οι βάρβαροι σαν έλθουν θα νομοθετήσουν.

—Γιατί ο αυτοκράτωρ μας τόσο πρωί σηκώθη,
και κάθεται στης πόλεως την πιο μεγάλη πύλη
στον θρόνο επάνω, επίσημος, φορώντας την κορώνα;

Γιατί οι βάρβαροι θα φθάσουν σήμερα.
Κι ο αυτοκράτωρ περιμένει να δεχθεί
τον αρχηγό τους. Μάλιστα ετοίμασε
για να τον δώσει μια περγαμηνή. Εκεί
τον έγραψε τίτλους πολλούς κι ονόματα.

— Γιατί οι δυο μας ύπατοι κ’ οι πραίτορες εβγήκαν
σήμερα με τες κόκκινες, τες κεντημένες τόγες·
γιατί βραχιόλια φόρεσαν με τόσους αμεθύστους,
και δαχτυλίδια με λαμπρά, γυαλιστερά σμαράγδια·
γιατί να πιάσουν σήμερα πολύτιμα μπαστούνια
μ’ ασήμια και μαλάματα έκτακτα σκαλιγμένα;

Γιατί οι βάρβαροι θα φθάσουν σήμερα·
και τέτοια πράγματα θαμπώνουν τους βαρβάρους.

—Γιατί κ’ οι άξιοι ρήτορες δεν έρχονται σαν πάντα
να βγάλουνε τους λόγους τους, να πούνε τα δικά τους;

Γιατί οι βάρβαροι θα φθάσουν σήμερα·
κι αυτοί βαρυούντ’ ευφράδειες και δημηγορίες.

— Γιατί ν’ αρχίσει μονομιάς αυτή η ανησυχία
κ’ η σύγχυσις. (Τα πρόσωπα τι σοβαρά που εγίναν).
Γιατί αδειάζουν γρήγορα οι δρόμοι κ’ η πλατέες,
κι όλοι γυρνούν στα σπίτια τους πολύ συλλογισμένοι;

Γιατί ενύχτωσε κ’ οι βάρβαροι δεν ήλθαν.
Και μερικοί έφθασαν απ’ τα σύνορα,
και είπανε πως βάρβαροι πια δεν υπάρχουν.

__

Και τώρα τι θα γένουμε χωρίς βαρβάρους.
Οι άνθρωποι αυτοί ήσαν μια κάποια λύσις.

That's easy for you to say!

[Serial_Apologist]

True, we are not the only country in the world. That doesn't mean we shouldn't act positively as a nation. Is it not painfully obvious that an individual can only have limited action in protecting the planet - aside from the obvious necessity of voting Labour for a Green New Deal? Only the government can effect a rapid decarbonisation of our energy supply - so when you write 'the situation is far too serious to be left to government' that is the exact opposite of the truth. It's twaddle.

I take it you have never used the NHS before, since you appear to hate socialism so much? Corbyn's proposals would take us more in line with Scandinavia, not to mention France and Germany, in terms to spending & tax.



Why can't Labour and Conservatives put aside their differences? This strikes me as a bit of a puerile question. Obviously the answer is Labour generally cannot countenance the austerity that has resulted in over a hundred thousand deaths, by shifting the debt incurred from bailing out the banks onto the shoulders of the weakest in society - in other words, the poor get capitalism in the form of austerity while the rich (bankers) get socialism; I have pointed this out more than once on this forum - has it got through to you yet?

Some people are just immune to reasoning, and the present situation has given them the biggest free rein that I can remember. Trump and Johnson together have conveniently managed to dragoon all politicans into the category of untrustworthy liars, regardless of the source. Maybe it goes along with some need to feel part of the crowd in a society that systematises acquiescence, limiting freedom to purchasing choices and saying whatever you like while treating politics as synonymous with inevitability, like the weather.

[Anastasius]

I'm not quite sure that a Tory government would spell the end of civilisation! - we are not the only country in the world and, besides, it is up to us as individuals to protect the planet: the situation is far too serious to be left to governments (especially, dare I add, socialist governments that promise the earth (sic) and always fail.)
A hung parliament would probably be our best outcome - but, gosh, why can't Tories and Labour alike simply put aside their differences and work together in order truly to solve our problems (and provide us with a government that truly reflects the wishes of the people). A little bit of compromise goes a long way.

Well done, Bella, for speaking some sense on this otherwise leftwing infested forum. What you will find though is that the lefties are true to form, that they will all pile in and attempt to bully you into submission...which is, of course, the default position of the left.

I'm staggered that folk who I thought were intelligent believe the claptrap being put out by Corbyn's mob. Only this evening down our local, the lass behind the counter went on about 'The Conservatives will sell the NHS'. Asked why she thought this, she replied "It was on Facebook". That's where I think most denizens on this thread exist.

Don't bother to reply, leftie muppets, as I'll unsubscribe just as soon as I've hit Submit Reply. You'll be poking into a vacuum...but then you know all about that.

[Anastasius]

True, we are not the only country in the world. That doesn't mean we shouldn't act positively as a nation. Is it not painfully obvious that an individual can only have limited action in protecting the planet - aside from the obvious necessity of voting Labour for a Green New Deal? Only the government can effect a rapid decarbonisation of our energy supply - so when you write 'the situation is far too serious to be left to government' that is the exact opposite of the truth. It's twaddle.

I take it you have never used the NHS before, since you appear to hate socialism so much? Corbyn's proposals would take us more in line with Scandinavia, not to mention France and Germany, in terms to spending & tax.



Why can't Labour and Conservatives put aside their differences? This strikes me as a bit of a puerile question. Obviously the answer is Labour generally cannot countenance the austerity that has resulted in over a hundred thousand deaths, by shifting the debt incurred from bailing out the banks onto the shoulders of the weakest in society - in other words, the poor get capitalism in the form of austerity while the rich (bankers) get socialism; I have pointed this out more than once on this forum - has it got through to you yet?

Out of curiosity, Joseph K, since you're telling us al how we should live or lives....how many children do you have ?

[Bella Kemp]

My late grandmother - a real Dominican matriarch - used to say that when men go 'grumpy gorilla' it was best just to ignore them until their storm passed. Alas, some of the perhaps intemperate comments on this forum demonstrate that this is what has happened to my Labour party since the Momentum coup and sadly gives us insight into what truly lies behind the smiles and promises. The Tory party is scarcely my party of choice, but it's nothing like the horror it once was when, as a small child, I would tremble with terror when I heard the voice of Enoch Powell on the radio (we could not afford a tv) - knowing that that meant trouble next day at school (and not infrequently on the way to school). But no hard feelings. Grandma used to say, 'Just bless them and get on with the dusting.' Let's hope we can all find at least a little something to cheer us on Friday morning - my joy will be Haydn's symphony No. 33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afqy_QPZlTw God bless you.