Fun and games with ballot papers

[Joseph K]

The Beeb news site headlined the Chief Rabbi’s attack on Corbyn but didn’t give anything like equal prominence to the Muslim Council’s charge of Islamophobia against the Tories.

The Chief Rabbi also manages to overlook instances of antisemitism amongst Tories (e.g. their memorialising of Nancy Astor).

[Anastasius]

They're saying the same kind of thing now of course. I wonder what gives them the idea that they have the right to decide on other party's leaders. I also wonder why they thought, as they obviously did, that Cameron would make a better prime minister than Brown; it seemed pretty clear in 2010 that he wouldn't,.....

Now you're being silly. Neither, as it turned out were any good. Brown managed to screw up (amongst a myriad if other things) our gold reserves by telling the market that he was going to sell. Doh ! Stupidity 101. Cameron's stupidity by having the Referendum.

As you say, though, that was a long time ago. We're here and now and in a few days time that X goes in the box. And I'm really, really in a quandary. Despite what some of you may think I am not right of Attila the Hun but more slightly left of centre with a toe in the centre right.

Our constituency is very much Tory. I've usually voted Conservative but won't be this time as I think BoJo is a questionable individual of low morals and integrity.

If Blair was running the Labour party but before his WMD debacle then I might well have been giving Labour a serious thought. But this current lot ? I despair that any rational thinking person can be so blinded to believe the claptrap that they are spouting. And Corbyn is also a questionable individual of low morals and integrity.

I was going to vote LibDem but on principle and much as I would love to see Article 50 revoked, unilaterally revoking it without returning to the country is neither Liberal nor Democrat.

Green ? Well, they are a one-trick pony. IMO climate change is a busted flush. There's nothing we can do. Too many people on this planet. China building more coal-fired plants recently that have totally negated all that the UK has made in reducing our carbon footprint in the last year.

But morally one should vote otherwise all the pain and suffering that those men and women endured all those years ago to ensure that you and I can actually vote would be all to nowt.

Mark the paper 'None of the above' ?

[Anastasius]

The Beeb news site headlined the Chief Rabbi’s attack on Corbyn but didn’t give anything like equal prominence to the Muslim Council’s charge of Islamophobia against the Tories.

Perhaps because it's several orders of magnitude less than Labour's anti-semitism ?

[Anastasius]

....
I have visited Israel. It is the tackiest, least spiritual place I have ever been to.

You've never been to Blackpool ?

[MrGongGong]

I was going to vote LibDem but on principle and much as I would love to see Article 50 revoked, unilaterally revoking it without returning to the country is neither Liberal nor Democrat.

What on earth is "undemocratic" about someone saying
"vote for us and we will do X" ?

Seems perfectly "democratic" to me?


If they were "undemocratic" they would taking to the streets with pitchforks

[Bryn]

. . . Corbyn is also a questionable individual of low morals and integrity. . . .

Do tell. What is "questionable" about him as an "individual" and what evidence di you have of his having "low morals and integrity"?

[MrGongGong]

Do tell. What is "questionable" about him as an "individual" and what evidence di you have of his having "low morals and integrity"?

He hangs out with dodgy people ?

I'll just leave this here then

[Anastasius]

Do tell. What is "questionable" about him as an "individual" and what evidence di you have of his having "low morals and integrity"?

I'm not going to bite. There is nothing that I can say that will convince you otherwise. My opinion. YVMV.

[Anastasius]

What on earth is "undemocratic" about someone saying
"vote for us and we will do X" ?

Seems perfectly "democratic" to me?


If they were "undemocratic" they would taking to the streets with pitchforks

You're being obtuse. You know damn well what I mean. We had referendum. The country decided to Leave. To put forward a proposal to dismiss that result without going back to the country is undemocratic.

[Andy Freude]

I was going to vote LibDem but on principle and much as I would love to see Article 50 revoked, unilaterally revoking it without returning to the country is neither Liberal nor Democrat.

The question would be which has more force, 'returning to the country' for an advisory referendum (which could be made binding), or 'returning to the country' for a general election which already has constitutional legitimacy, stating that a vote for Party X is a vote for Revoking Article 50. Vote for us and we will revoke. It is traditionally held that if a party is elected to government they have a mandate to carry out what was in their manifesto. That is how our democracy works.

The point about the Liberal Democrats 'deciding' who should be the leader of another party was silly. It's a, currently fashionable, quid pro quo. If you want A from 'us', we are demanding for B from 'you' in return. But the decision lies with with you. You can turn down the quid pro quo. 'We' are not deciding, 'you' are.

The tactical vote in my constituency is to vote Labour, which I have already done in spite of misgivings because my strongest motivation is a (sadly fading) hope of thwarting the Conservatives. But to each his own.

[MrGongGong]

You're being obtuse. You know damn well what I mean. We had referendum. The country decided to Leave. To put forward a proposal to dismiss that result without going back to the country is undemocratic.

No it isn't "undemocratic" at all

It would be "undemocratic" to say that votes have to be for all time and there is never any chance to vote for something else

and anyway
"the country" didn't "decide to leave" at all

[MrGongGong]

The two primary tasks are IMV

1: To stop Johnson being the prime minister
2: To stop Brexit

I would do whatever you can to make those things happen

I never thought I would see the day when i'm in agreement with Michael Heseltine

[Serial_Apologist]

He hangs out with dodgy people ?

I'll just leave this here then

Nice one MrGG

Little (if any) mention has been made of Nicola Sturgeon's veiled and muted olive branch to Corbyn on The Marr Show yesterday regarding the SNP's Scottish Independence referendum, to which, Sturgeon stated, Labour would only have to agree to the basic principle of independence as the precondition of support in the event of a hung parliament. This would surely have been passed through the SNP machine for acceptance. Labour would be disadvantaged in the event of Scotland breaking away. Yet Corbyn has never ruled any possibility of Scots independence out permanently, only said either that it could or should not happen in the first year of office.

The DUP is looking pretty left out of all this - another factor, not just in which way Thursday's vote could go in the province, but for prospects of post-elecoral alliance with the Tories should a repeat of 2017 arise.

[Conchis]

I thought the LDs had rowed back on their pledge to revoke?

I don’t see what’s wrong with Corbyn as an individual. The worst he could be accused of is some naivety in the past, as regards things he may have said about Hamas.

That is, of course, as nothing to the things Johnson has said and done in the past when he was mayor of London and editor of the Spectator - of which there is written record aplenty.

[ahinton]

The two primary tasks are IMV

1: To stop Johnson being the prime minister
2: To stop Brexit

I would do whatever you can to make those things happen

I never thought I would see the day when i'm in agreement with Michael Heseltine

Nor would I, but then doesn't it say something about "Conservatism" today that both he and Sir John Major are publicly urging people not to vote Conservative?