Fun and games with ballot papers

[Serial_Apologist]

If those maps are right, then as an "oldie" (now 74) I'm disgraced about the viewpoints and perspectives of my near-contemporaries, with their "we're all right jack, and now we're pulling up the drawbridge" attitudes and perspectives - so different from my parent's generation who went through WW2 learning lessons and came out promising us lot a better more equal secure future, and the end to all wars.

Should Boris and his chums get back in on the 12th I'm giving up on mainstream politics and throwing in my lot with the Extinction Rebellion generation: what they need, beyond the goodwill that's an indispensable precondition to any kind of future, is a stronger ideological backbone that instills critical thinking about the present system that has brought about the situation the world is now in.

[Richard Barrett]

Should Boris and his chums get back in on the 12th I'm giving up on mainstream politics and throwing in my lot with the Extinction Rebellion generation: what they need, beyond the goodwill that's an indispensable precondition to any kind of future, is a stronger ideological backbone that instills critical thinking about the present system that has brought about the situation the world is now in.

You won't be the only one.

[Bryn]

You won't be the only one.

Not by a long shot.

[ahinton]

Should Boris and his chums get back in on the 12th I'm giving up on mainstream politics and throwing in my lot with the Extinction Rebellion generation: what they need, beyond the goodwill that's an indispensable precondition to any kind of future, is a stronger ideological backbone that instills critical thinking about the present system that has brought about the situation the world is now in.

Well understood but, although opinion polls (for what they might or might not be worth) started off by suggesting that BoJo & Co. would indeed win the GE it seems as though that is giving way to an increasing likelihood of a hung Parliament as its outcome; frankly, to the questions "does UK deserve a Johnson-led Tory government?" and "does UK deserve a Corbyn-led Labour government" seem less pertinent than "does UK any longer deserve to be governed at all?"...

[kernelbogey]

It is interesting that no one goes into the polling booth setting out to elect a hung parliament - although I think that is what I think we'll have on Friday. The media seem increasingly bent on presenting this as a presidential election, but the mechanics of electing a parliament is 600+ constituencies voting on a smorgasbord of local, national and international issues, often closely tied to sitting MPs, especially in safe seats.

My point is that a hung parliament will represent the confusion and discontent which is partially multi-national (cf Lega Nord/Salvini, Erdogan, Hungary, USA/Trump etc etc), partially Brexit-specific - plus a good helping of longstanding Briitish class issues. Tory support may be fading because Johnson looks increasingly weak and unable to address voters' real concerns; plus serious missteps over the London Bridge murders; and his minders' obvious intent to keep him clear of serious scrutiny (resisting Andrew Neil, for example). Whereas Corbyn looks more statesmanlike day by day.

My hat is permanently off to the 'rebels' - Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry, Hilary Benn, Ken Clarke and many others - who have so far succeeded in stopping the insane notion of a 'no deal' Brexit. And good old Tarzan (Heseltine) is metaphorically still seizing the mace and waving it about! Parliament so far from 'thwarting the will of the people' has done sterling work holding the executive to account and saving us - thus far, thus far - from catastrophe.

[LeMartinPecheur]

It is interesting that no one goes into the polling booth setting out to elect a hung parliament - although I think that is what I think we'll have on Friday. The media seem increasingly bent on presenting this as a presidential election, but the mechanics of electing a parliament is 600+ constituencies voting on a smorgasbord of local, national and international issues, often closely tied to sitting MPs, especially in safe seats.

My point is that a hung parliament will represent the confusion and discontent which is partially multi-national (cf Lega Nord/Salvini, Erdogan, Hungary, USA/Trump etc etc), partially Brexit-specific - plus a good helping of longstanding Briitish class issues. Tory support may be fading because Johnson looks increasingly weak and unable to address voters' real concerns; plus serious missteps over the London Bridge murders; and his minders' obvious intent to keep him clear of serious scrutiny (resisting Andrew Neil, for example). Whereas Corbyn looks more statesmanlike day by day.

My hat is permanently off to the 'rebels' - Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry, Hilary Benn, Ken Clarke and many others - who have so far succeeded in stopping the insane notion of a 'no deal' Brexit. And good old Tarzan (Heseltine) is metaphorically still seizing the mace and waving it about! Parliament so far from 'thwarting the will of the people' has done sterling work holding the executive to account and saving us - thus far, thus far - from catastrophe.

[Serial_Apologist]

It is interesting that no one goes into the polling booth setting out to elect a hung parliament - although I think that is what I think we'll have on Friday. The media seem increasingly bent on presenting this as a presidential election, but the mechanics of electing a parliament is 600+ constituencies voting on a smorgasbord of local, national and international issues, often closely tied to sitting MPs, especially in safe seats.

My point is that a hung parliament will represent the confusion and discontent which is partially multi-national (cf Lega Nord/Salvini, Erdogan, Hungary, USA/Trump etc etc), partially Brexit-specific - plus a good helping of longstanding Briitish class issues. Tory support may be fading because Johnson looks increasingly weak and unable to address voters' real concerns; plus serious missteps over the London Bridge murders; and his minders' obvious intent to keep him clear of serious scrutiny (resisting Andrew Neil, for example). Whereas Corbyn looks more statesmanlike day by day.

My hat is permanently off to the 'rebels' - Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry, Hilary Benn, Ken Clarke and many others - who have so far succeeded in stopping the insane notion of a 'no deal' Brexit. And good old Tarzan (Heseltine) is metaphorically still seizing the mace and waving it about! Parliament so far from 'thwarting the will of the people' has done sterling work holding the executive to account and saving us - thus far, thus far - from catastrophe.

While in agreement with much of the above, it shoud be remembered that those "rebels" had wed themselves to an EU model of continuing development and harmonisation, with all that means (and has had to be dealt with by Corbyn) in terms of slothful bureaucracy and inoperative subsidiarity that has been synonymised with global elitism, and hijacked by those far right neo-nationalists you reference. That model could have been challenged by left parties inside the EU uniting and coming up with a new more democratic and less neoliberal socioeconomic model - and could still possibly be, were a new referendum (as promised by Labour) to return a remain majority vote. Were it not for the fact of renewed negoitations effectively contradicting this Labour should actually be promoting it, in my view. Cleft stickery!

[Dave2002]

It is interesting that no one goes into the polling booth setting out to elect a hung parliament - although I think that is what I think we'll have on Friday.

I might very well go into the polling booth with the hope of electing a hung parliament, as "None of the above" is not an option on ballot papers. Now if we had "None of the above" on ballot papers, with the Queen or other authority then bound to reject the current leaders and their parties if that was the majority wish, then we might get closer to something I could vote for, rather than against.

[oddoneout]

It is interesting that no one goes into the polling booth setting out to elect a hung parliament

I think that many will be voting either with that as an aim, or a hope as a better outcome than more of the same. Certainly that's what I'm hearing in conversations with friends colleagues and random others. As previously mentioned, in my neck of the woods we have to watch from the sidelines and hope others elsewhere will do the decent thing and think very hard about where they put their X, since we are condemned to the deep blue sea.
In the meantime here is a perspective from abroad

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/you-know-youre-not-legally-required-to-like-jeremy-corbyn-in-order-to-vote-for-him-right

[Serial_Apologist]

I think that many will be voting either with that as an aim, or a hope as a better outcome than more of the same. Certainly that's what I'm hearing in conversations with friends colleagues and random others. As previously mentioned, in my neck of the woods we have to watch from the sidelines and hope others elsewhere will do the decent thing and think very hard about where they put their X, since we are condemned to the deep blue sea.
In the meantime here is a perspective from abroad
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-for-him-right

If you follow political websites with which you are in sympathy, you will probably find advice there on which way to vote tactically, specific to the constituency.

[muzzer]

I fear the right is more likely to get its vote out effectively than the left, and that the centre and left won’t vote tactically in large enough numbers to ward off disaster. Either way, this country is now a joke internationally and will be long after I’ve ‘gone to glory’, as a grandparent used to term it ironically.

[Anastasius]

I fear the right is more likely to get its vote out effectively than the left, and that the centre and left won’t vote tactically in large enough numbers to ward off disaster. Either way, this country is now a joke internationally and will be long after I’ve ‘gone to glory’, as a grandparent used to term it ironically.

I agree with you and it's sad that the left have allowed themselves to be taken over by the more extreme elements. That plus choosing a totally ineffectual fence-sitting nobody asleader. But then again, the Conservatives chose a buffoon.

Where are the statesmen of yore ? The ones with gravitas ?

[oddoneout]

If you follow political websites with which you are in sympathy, you will probably find advice there on which way to vote tactically, specific to the constituency.

Sadly tactical voting is completely irrelevant in my constituency and I have a suspicion that even if total votes cast are down(which they may well be given that situation and the negativity it generates among those who want a genuine choice) the con percentage majority will still stay just under 60%.

[LMcD]

Sadly tactical voting is completely irrelevant in my constituency and I have a suspicion that even if total votes cast are down(which they may well be given that situation and the negativity it generates among those who want a genuine choice) the con percentage majority will still stay just under 60%.

Same here (Suffolk Coastal) In 2017 the Conservative had 58% of the vote and a majority of ca. 16,000. Liberal Democrat came 3rd with just over 4,000 votes (7%).

[muzzer]

I agree with you and it's sad that the left have allowed themselves to be taken over by the more extreme elements. That plus choosing a totally ineffectual fence-sitting nobody asleader. But then again, the Conservatives chose a buffoon.

Where are the statesmen of yore ? The ones with gravitas ?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. No one is innocent, etc.

I think that at a very basic level only the rich or stupid will be happy in the near to medium future, and that sadly that is usually the way of the world. The last 50 years have been markedly less turbulent for most people in Britain than the previous 50. Which is not to ignore the seismic changes, but the middle class has grown largely to the benefit of most, but of course it’s all fallen over in the last 10 years. I don’t buy the notion of failed so called neo liberalism btw. Liberalism, in the traditional sense, is a good thing imho. And it’s very much under threat.