Fun and games with ballot papers

[MrGongGong]

You cited the notion that wealth is accrued by being "stolen from the workers" as if to say this was a ridiculous idea, which would suggest that you had some other idea about how wealthy people become wealthy. There are two principal ways: extracting surplus value out of people, or inheriting it from (somewhere down the line) someone who did. Surely this is a fact, not just how some people think.

I said ALL, which is a bit different.
The thing i'm interested in is whether in other places where there is a smaller gap between rich and poor there is a different attitude.
Having said that I probably hate David and Frederick Barclay as much as you do

[doversoul1]

I don't know
BUT I am interested in how people think.

OK. It will go off the topic of the thread and not everyone will be interested in* but if you specify your interest or angle/aspect a little more, I may be able to talk something about how things are and what people think in Japan where the scale of the gap of the rich and the poor is almost laughable compared to how it is in this country.
*I'll leave the Host to decide if this should or should not go ahead here.

[Serial_Apologist]

OK. It will go off the topic of the thread and not everyone will be interested in* but if you specify your interest or angle/aspect a little more, I may be able to talk something about how things are and what people think in Japan where the scale of the gap of the rich and the poor is almost laughable compared to how it is in this country.
*I'll leave the Host to decide if this should or should not go ahead here.

I for one would be most interested to hear what you have to say about such things, dovers.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I for one would be most interested to hear what you have to say about such things, dovers.

I and Mrs LMP will be particularly interested having just watched the Japanese film Shoplifters.

[doversoul1]

If no Hosts or members object, I’ll wait for Mr GG to suggest a couple of points to start with. It will not be studied or researched answers but my personal impressions based on reading ‘native’ materials.

[MrGongGong]

If no Hosts or members object, I’ll wait for Mr GG to suggest a couple of points to start with. It will not be studied or researched answers but my personal impressions based on reading ‘native’ materials.

Go ahead
but it's not what I was asking about

Obviously I asked in the wrong place

[Serial_Apologist]

Go ahead
but it's not what I was asking about

Obviously I asked in the wrong place

You yourself extended the discussion by raising the question of how the issue of inequality is thought about in other countries, which is a genuine question to address, one germane to the subject and in line with the well-known nostrum that it is difficult for any culture to examine istelf other than through the viewpoint of another culture.

[MrGongGong]

You yourself extended the discussion by raising the question of how the issue of inequality is thought about in other countries, which is a genuine question to address, one germane to the subject and in line with the well-known nostrum that it is difficult for any culture to examine istelf other than through the viewpoint of another culture.

The question I asked was simply about how wealth inequality was regarded in Scandinavian countries which are often cited as examples for the UK to follow.
Obviously no one has any idea
which is fine
i'll ask the folks I know who live in Finland

[Dave2002]

The question I asked was simply about how wealth inequality was regarded in Scandinavian countries which are often cited as examples for the UK to follow.
Obviously no one has any idea
which is fine
i'll ask the folks I know who live in Finland

Difficult to know. In Sweden people with high incomes have the details published, and newspapers such as Aftonbladet publish some from time to time. It's also possible to ring up the tax office and ask about the status of almost anyone. I know. There is awareness, and in many work environments the pay of others is known. This is also the case in some work environments in the USA - but perhaps not all.

As in other countries, some people may have less transparent situations - if they don't work for anyone else. Some people may have found ways of getting under the tax radar, though the Swedish tax system does seem remarkably well aware of what people have been doing each year.

Gender weath inequality is probably less in Sweden than many other countries, but it's still an issue. It is raised as an issue quite frequently in the media there.

Sweden is odd though, as some possibly relatively high earners working for telecoms industries appear to pay tax in countries such as Belgium - and I'm not talking about people who actually live outside their mother country. I liked Sweden, but not everything is as simple as it might appear from the outside.

[MrGongGong]

Difficult to know. In Sweden people with high incomes have the details published, and newspapers such as Aftonbladet publish some from time to time. It's also possible to ring up the tax office and ask about the status of almost anyone. I know. There is awareness, and in many work environments the pay of others is known. This is also the case in some work environments in the USA - but perhaps not all.

As in other countries, some people may have less transparent situations - if they don't work for anyone else. Some people may have found ways of getting under the tax radar, though the Swedish tax system does seem remarkably well aware of what people have been doing each year.

Gender weath inequality is probably less in Sweden than many other countries, but it's still an issue. It is raised as an issue quite frequently in the media there.

Sweden is odd though, as some possibly relatively high earners working for telecoms industries appear to pay tax in countries such as Belgium - and I'm not talking about people who actually live outside their mother country. I liked Sweden, but not everything is as simple as it might appear from the outside.

Thanks

and what is the attitude of those who earn less towards those who earn more ?

It's interesting that my question is taken by some as somehow a 'defence' of extreme wealth inequality which it isn't.

[doversoul1]

Thanks

and what is the attitude of those who earn less towards those who earn more ?

It's interesting that my question is taken by some as somehow a 'defence' of extreme wealth inequality which it isn't.

Does that mean you (simply) want to know what poor people think about rich people? I thought you wanted to know how people in other counties think about the wealth inequality and how they see their governments or system/history that have brought the inequality about.

Incidentally, does the extreme wealth that exist in this country, especially in London, exist in Scandinavian countries?

[ed.] Also, when we, well I talk about extreme wealth, we are/I am not talking about high earners as such. It’s about those who have amassed and still adding the wealth. I suppose we are talking about something different.

[MrGongGong]

Does that mean you (simply) want to know what poor people think about rich people? I thought you wanted to know how people in other counties think about the wealth inequality and how they see their governments or system/history that have brought the inequality about.

Incidentally, does the extreme wealth that exist in this country, especially in London, exist in Scandinavian countries?

[ed.] Also, when we, well I talk about extreme wealth, we are/I am not talking about high earners as such. It’s about those who have amassed and still adding the wealth. I suppose we are talking about something different.

What i'm interested in, is whether in countries that have less wealth inequality than the UK (and YES I do know all about it here and the way that some folks are obscenely rich etc etc )and I'm perfectly aware of what poor people think about rich people in the UK , I simply have to ask the people I know / work with who are) there is the same attitude to wealthy people as in (some) sectors of UK society?
and (the following question) if there IS a different attitude is it because those who are wealthy in (for example) Finland are more empathetic/collaborative/socially minded than many (NOT ALL) rich people in the UK ?

It's a very simple question which someone might know about.

[doversoul1]

What i'm interested in, is whether in countries that have less wealth inequality than the UK (and YES I do know all about it here and the way that some folks are obscenely rich etc etc )and I'm perfectly aware of what poor people think about rich people in the UK , I simply have to ask the people I know / work with who are) there is the same attitude to wealthy people as in (some) sectors of UK society?
and (the following question) if there IS a different attitude is it because those who are wealthy in (for example) Finland are more empathetic/collaborative/socially minded than many (NOT ALL) rich people in the UK ?

It's a very simple question which someone might know about.

As I guessed, we are interested in different things. You’ll probably find quite a lot of papers on personal attitudes on wealth in those countries if you look for.

Incidentally what attitude are you referring to? Don't worry too much. I'm just a bit interested in if you have time to tell me.

there is the same attitude to wealthy people as in (some) sectors of UK society?

[LHC]

Difficult to know. In Sweden people with high incomes have the details published, and newspapers such as Aftonbladet publish some from time to time. It's also possible to ring up the tax office and ask about the status of almost anyone. I know. There is awareness, and in many work environments the pay of others is known. This is also the case in some work environments in the USA - but perhaps not all.

As in other countries, some people may have less transparent situations - if they don't work for anyone else. Some people may have found ways of getting under the tax radar, though the Swedish tax system does seem remarkably well aware of what people have been doing each year.

Gender weath inequality is probably less in Sweden than many other countries, but it's still an issue. It is raised as an issue quite frequently in the media there.

Sweden is odd though, as some possibly relatively high earners working for telecoms industries appear to pay tax in countries such as Belgium - and I'm not talking about people who actually live outside their mother country. I liked Sweden, but not everything is as simple as it might appear from the outside.

It’s worth remembering that there were an awful lot of rich Swedes who were exposed in the Panama papers as using offshore banks in the Cayman Islands to hide their real wealth from the Swedish tax authorities and their fellow citizens. There was also a Swedish bank that helped with these arrangements whose name features more than 10,000 times in the Panama documents; more than any other bank in the World.

[muzzer]

Wealth and earnings are obviously different things. A lot of people own their own house and certainly in London that can be an asset that is worth a lot on paper. But unless you borrow against it, or let a room out (assuming you’d want to) it is not income producing unless and until you sell it. Granted, the rise in house prices in London compared to the rest of the country has led to the perception that this wealth is unearned, but what of those who have saved to pay off their mortgages? Who borrowed many years ago, and spent carefully meantime, so as to own an asset in later life? Or who simply can’t or won’t move, for whatever reason. Why should their frugality be penalised by, as appears to be envisaged, tax charges on sale of that asset? Or worse still a ‘windfall’ tax in the form of an annual charge. All that will happen is that the banks which run foreign domiciled trusts hitherto the preserve of the super rich will come up with a product for the mid market which enables them to avoid paying it. In effect, capital flight from the U.K. and money taken out of the economy. Nobody benefits from that.