Fun and games with ballot papers

[ahinton]

Just signed this.

Moi aussi; many thanks for drawing attention to it.

[CGR]

In fact the Conservative who won in Bolsover to replace Skinner is Mark Fletcher, a former director at Synergix. They are a private healthcare company that serves the NHS. Just pause a moment to allow the irony to register then move on. Nothing to see here.

Many companies work for the NHS to deliver services and have always done so since 1948. The entire GP service is provided by local private partnerships contracted to supply the NHS.

The fundamental point is that the provision of health care to the public is free at the point of delivery and paid for jointly by us taxpayers. No one has suggested that it should change.

[ahinton]

Many companies work for the NHS to deliver services and have always done so since 1948. The entire GP service is provided by local private partnerships contracted to supply the NHS.

The fundamental point is that the provision of health care to the public is free at the point of delivery and paid for jointly by us taxpayers. No one has suggested that it should change.

Indeed so, except that not all NHS provision is free at the point of delivery; dental services (if you can ever find them) certainly aren't, the maximum per person per course of treatment being around £270.

[Stanfordian]

Indeed so, except that not all NHS provision is free at the point of delivery; dental services (if you can ever find them) certainly aren't, the maximum per person per course of treatment being around £270.

I don't think I've ever seen as many people walking around with noticeable problems with their teeth. I personally find the cost difficult to manage and there are so many others far, far less able to pay than me.

However I'm not sure if people with notable gaps in their teeth are equal to that large group of younger people displaying braces; which I often wonder if they really need.

[Bryn]

So, the new government plans to legislate to prevent extension of negotiation on the withdrawal agreement beyond December 2020. Big deal! If they get near their legislated for deadline, they can simply amend the proposed legislation. It's something BJ and co, form on.

[Dave2002]

The fundamental point is that the provision of health care to the public is free at the point of delivery and paid for jointly by us taxpayers. No one has suggested that it should change.

Doctors who provide services for the NHS are indeed free at the point of delivery. The NHS does not attempt to do more than provide a good minimum service, which it does quite well - in some aspects and regions - but it is area dependent. Sometimes the NHS does provide truly outstanding service, and sometimes it is shockingly bad - think about the issues in some hospitals which have been well publicised after the events. Also there are limits to the services offered, even if they are available. For example, physiotherapy, which is often beneficial for patients - perhaps, but not exclusively, after having a stroke - is often limited, and futher progress can be made by paying for private treatment subsequently.

Also - note that prescriptions are not free either for many people.

Just in case there is a comparison with the USA, free prescriptions are of course cheaper than any paid for presecriptions, but some of the cheapest prescriptions I've ever had were in California - I think costing $1, though prescription prices in the USA are very variable, and depend on which insurance scheme one happens to belong to. When we lived there the same prescription could cost between $1 and $15.

Also prescription glasses in the US were very cheap for me - though of course someone was paying the insurance fees up front - presumably me via my then employer and the general insurance scheme. That was something I noticed when I had a pair made on a US prescription, then shipped back to the UK as they weren't ready in time. The duty payable at the time would have been considerable - based on an estimated value of £150 or more - but I eventually had that excused by showing my US prescription order.

I can't remember whether prescriptions were free in Sweden or not - but I do know that some medication was not generally available there because of cost considerations.

So - I don't think it can be said that the NHS is always free at the point of delivery - though it depends what "point of delivery" means.

[LMcD]

A harbinger of the horrors to come - Wetherspoons have announced that, owing to the shortage of European migrant workers, whom they employ to hand-wrap the bacon round the sausages, they've had to sell their seasonal pigs without blankets - and, no, I'm not making this up!

[ahinton]

Doctors and dentists who provide services for the NHS are indeed free at the point of delivery.

But that is not so; GPs, yes but not dentists whose services are charged at three set rates depending on the level of treatment dispensed.

The NHS does not attempt to do more than provide a good minimum service, which it does quite well - in some aspects and regions - but it is area dependent. Sometimes the NHS does provide truly outstanding service, and sometimes it is shockingly bad - think about the issues in some hospitals which have been well publicised after the events. Also there are limits to the services offered, even if they are available. For example, physiotherapy, which is often beneficial for patients - perhaps, but not exclusively, after having a stroke - is often limited, and futher progress can be made by paying for private treatment subsequently.

Indeed - and NHS dentists are like gold dust sprinkled on hens' teeth. I registered with an NHS dental practice earlier this year after a long search for one but it is no longer accepting any new patients, NHS or private.

Also - note that prescriptions are not free either for many people.

Indeed they are not, although the flat rate charged for them is usually far lower than the amounts that would be charged for them privately.

So - I don't think it can be said that the NHS is always free at the point of delivery - though it depends what "point of delivery" means.

I can and indeed must be so said, although "free at the point of delivery" surely means that whatever it might be is not charged for at that point.

Incidentally, when I had to attend my local A&E a while ago I saw a patient about to leave there having had treatment and asking reception how much he owed and, when told "nothing - this is the NHS", seemed incredulousl he said "but I've had hundreds of pounds' worth of attention since I signed in here - someone has to pay for it!". The nonplussed receptionist said something along the lines of, "sir, that's very kind and thoughtful of you, but we have no facilities for accepting such payments here, even as gifts - here's a leaflet with some contact details, so please feel free to get in touch to ask if there is a way to pay for your treatment here, although I do not think that there is". Someone who was obviously unaware of the system and how it works evidently didn't expect something for nothing but nevertheless got it...

[ahinton]

A harbinger of the horrors to come - Wetherspoons have announced that, owing to the shortage of European migrant workers, whom they employ to hand-wrap the bacon round the sausages, they've had to sell their seasonal pigs without blankets - and, no, I'm not making this up!

But just wait until after Brexit when they'll no longer be able to source UK pigs because the pound will have slupmed so far that the rest of EU and elsewhere will be buying them all on the cheap and there'll be few if any left in UK!

[LMcD]

But just wsait until after Brexit when they'll no longer be able to source UK pigs because the pound will have slupmed so far that the rest of EU and elsewhere will be buying them all on the cheap and there'll be few if any left in UK!

Perhaps I'd better start stockpiling pig-based products in general. Fortunately we do have an underused former granny flat in which we could install an industrial-scale freezer. The pound has already given up some of its initial post-election gains as the realization sinks in that a no-deal exit is still possible and the likelihood of even an half-way decent trade deal by the end of 2020 is somewhere between minimal and non-existent.

[greenilex]

Sorry, but the juxtaposition of granny flat with industrial freezer gave me cold shivers...I do hope unnecessarily.

[eighthobstruction]

Sorry, but the juxtaposition of granny flat with industrial freezer gave me cold shivers...I do hope unnecessarily.

....opening act of 50-60s Arnold Wesker play

[Richard Barrett]

Back on topic: my postal ballot papers arrived today. Well done Waltham Forest Council! Or should I say: Well done Cameron/May/Johnson for starving councils of the funds and staff to get these things sent out in time!

[burning dog]

Health consumption expenditures per capita, U.S. dollars, PPP adjusted, 2017

United States $10,22


United Kingdom $4,543

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-start

Life expectancy at birth in years, 2016 or nearest year

United States 78.6

United Kingdom 81.2

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#item-start

Perhaps this is "fake noos"?

[Boilk]

In cinemas now but also on...

ITV 10.45pm tonight: John Pilger's documentary The Dirty War on the NHS.
Even the kow-towing Guardian doesn't solicit articles from John Pilger anymore - one of the UK's last independent journalists worthy of that description. He does have a Twitter account though.