Fun and games with ballot papers

[MrGongGong]

And if anyone wants to use the term "virtue-signalling" I'm sure we'd all welcome a definition-of-terms....with reference to the current thread of course.....

In my experience it's usually used by people are unable to contemplate the idea that not everyone agrees with them
it used to be common parlance in these parts from a certain smoked fish enthusiast

[Dave2002]

In my experience it's usually used by people are unable to contemplate the idea that not everyone agrees with them
it used to be common parlance in these parts from a certain smoked fish enthusiast

Was't he (she!) more into roast beef? Perhaps we're not thinking of the same person/forum member.

[teamsaint]

This is my truth, tell me yours......


There is anti semitism active within the Labour party, among a very small number of people. In the main this probably spills over from anti Israeli and pro Palestinian sentiment. Labour has been , and has been perceived to be, less vigorous in rooting this out than would have been wise and just.

Islamophobia is almost certainly much more widespread in the Conservative party than anti semitism is in Labour , though possibly in a less active fashion. The media have given them much too easy a ride on this compared to the treatment of Labour and Corbyn. Hostile Environment , for example, set out an example of the kind of xenophobic behaviour officially deemed acceptable by a government, and party.

The media's treatment of Labour, and particualarly the response yesterday to the Chief Rabbi's comments reflect very badly on the BBC and others. There was very little questioning of his statement, his wider views, and its ( as somebody else said) almost evidence free base. Coverage of his comments is justified, but a full day of little else when there are so many great issues at stake went well beyond reasonable balance, especially since some of the criticism of Corbyn is clearly part of a struggle for control of the Labour party, and that such criticism is not, in fact ,new.

[Joseph K]

This is my truth, tell me yours......


There is anti semitism active within the Labour party, among a very small number of people. In the main this probably spills over from anti Israeli and pro Palestinian sentiment. Labour has been , and has been perceived to be, less vigorous in rooting this out than would have been wise and just.

Islamophobia is almost certainly much more widespread in the Conservative party than anti semitism is in Labour , though possibly in a less active fashion. The media have given them much too easy a ride on this compared to the treatment of Labour and Corbyn. Hostile Environment , for example, set out an example of the kind of xenophobic behaviour officially deemed acceptable by a government, and party.

The media's treatment of Labour, and particualarly the response yesterday to the Chief Rabbi's comments reflect very badly on the BBC and others. There was very little questioning of his statement, his wider views, and its ( as somebody else said) almost evidence free base. Coverage of his comments is justified, but a full day of little else when there are so many great issues at stake went well beyond reasonable balance, especially since some of the criticism of Corbyn is clearly part of a struggle for control of the Labour party, and that such criticism is not, in fact ,new.

Facts which no one at the BBC or other mainstream media outlet mentions:

1) Antisemitism is more prevalent amongst Conservatives than amongst Labour people (which is hardly surprising, given that such things as equality, egalitarianism and opposition to racism are all left-wing traits).

2) The amount of antisemitism in Labour has actually fallen while Jeremy Corbyn has been its leader.

Like you say, teamsaint, the BBC and more widely, the mainstream media, is utterly disgusting and disgraceful in its treatment of Corbyn. This is perhaps the last election that we might have a chance of electing people who will implement a Green New Deal, and yet these media outlets are content to pump out utter arse gravy and codswallop on behalf of their billionaire overlords, ramming it down people's throats over months and years, the same old Labour antisemitism crisis again annagain…

[Dave2002]

I have much less faith in the unbiased nature of BBC reporting now than say a year ago. In efforts to "preserve balance" they manage to match up people who really aren't representative. Politics Live today had one voice of sanity, from someone not from the UK - Malcolm Gladwell. In the meantime the journalists and others who have pounds"to earn" keep on churning out the same old stuff hour after hour, and "in the interests of truth" !!! - keep posing binary questions - "answer yes or no - answer the question" - which any sane person with a brain might realise is hardly going to get a sensible answer. Then we get told that "that is what journalists should be doing ...". No, No, No. Journalists should be seeking out, and presenting the truth, but leading questions and presenting false dichotomies to eke out an answer .... no! They do not have right to force questioning in the way they do. Don't forget that journalists, BBC presenters, and the media have commercial interests in keeping this very poor kind of presentation going - they are not unbiased.

[MrGongGong]

I have much less faith in the unbiased nature of BBC reporting now than say a year ago. In efforts to "preserve balance" they manage to match up people who really aren't representative. Politics Live today had one voice of sanity, from someone not from the UK - Malcolm Gladwell. In the meantime the journalists and others who have pounds"to earn" keep on churning out the same old stuff hour after hour, and "in the interests of truth" !!! - keep posing binary questions - "answer yes or no - answer the question" - which any sane person with a brain might realise is hardly going to get a sensible answer. Then we get told that "that is what journalists should be doing ...". No, No, No. Journalists should be seeking out, and presenting the truth, but leading questions and presenting false dichotomies to eke out an answer .... no! They do not have right to force questioning in the way they do. Don't forget that journalists, BBC presenters, and the media have commercial interests in keeping this very poor kind of presentation going - they are not unbiased.

I have noticed that (at long last) journalists have started to insist that politicians actually answer the questions
about time to .... it would be much better if they did a "Richard Madeley" and said..."Ok mr Gove you aren't answering the question so bye bye"....


This painful car crash of lies was widely shared today... FFS turn her off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpcY6HsGmAM

THIS is how to do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd9YmdenPLg&frags=pl%2Cwn

[Anastasius]

In my experience it's usually used by people are unable to contemplate the idea that not everyone agrees with them
it used to be common parlance in these parts from a certain smoked fish enthusiast

Interesting viewpoint. I'd have said that it referred to those who were very smug in their conspicuous expression of moral values.

[Anastasius]

Facts which no one at the BBC or other mainstream media outlet mentions:

1) Antisemitism is more prevalent amongst Conservatives than amongst Labour people (which is hardly surprising, given that such things as equality, egalitarianism and opposition to racism are all left-wing traits).

2) The amount of antisemitism in Labour has actually fallen while Jeremy Corbyn has been its leader.

Like you say, teamsaint, the BBC and more widely, the mainstream media, is utterly disgusting and disgraceful in its treatment of Corbyn. This is perhaps the last election that we might have a chance of electing people who will implement a Green New Deal, and yet these media outlets are content to pump out utter arse gravy and codswallop on behalf of their billionaire overlords, ramming it down people's throats over months and years, the same old Labour antisemitism crisis again annagain…

And the moon is made of cheese. I could also write a load of waffle without any facts or evidence. It still wouldn't make it any truer than the 'facts' purported by Teamsaint or Joseph K.

Corby and Johnson are the two sides of the political duplicitous coin. The only distinguishing feature between the two IMO is their hold of reality. One believes in a Magic Money Forest. Although I'm not voting Tory, I'm pleased that it looks as if Labour won't get in which would (again IMO) be infinitely worse for the UK. Labour should have ditched Corbynge ages ago but the extreme Left have taken over.

Keir Starmer and Rory Stewart would both better decent PM's (again IMO ...YVMV)

[Bryn]

. . . I could also write a load of waffle without any facts or evidence. . . .

"could"? From what I read, you already do.

[Richard Barrett]

I could also write a load of waffle without any facts or evidence. It still wouldn't make it any truer than the 'facts' purported by Teamsaint or Joseph K.

I think you'll find that their facts can easily be backed up by independent figures. Do you think JK and teamsaint just made them up? Every systematic account of the issue I've seen shows a higher prevalence of antisemitism among Tory supporters than among Labour supporters. You may spend half a minute yourself with your preferred search engine to check this, and then there's the basis for a discussion.

[Anastasius]

"could"? From what I read, you already do.

Pot. Kettle.

[Bryn]

Pot. Kettle.

My point, entirely.

[Anastasius]

I think you'll find that their facts can easily be backed up by independent figures. Do you think JK and teamsaint just made them up? .....

No I don't. But it's easy to select those web surveys and polls that support your own viewpoint. I'm not going to play that game.

And if Agent Cob and his party are so innocent then why didn't he answer Andrew Neil's question ? Agent Cob is spineless.

[Richard Barrett]

Agent Cob is spineless.

This is no way to conduct a political discussion among supposedly cultured and intelligent people. What on earth are you on about?

If you think it's so easy to "select those web surveys and polls that support your own viewpoint I challenge you to find any evidence that racism in general or antisemitism in particular is more common among Tories than among Labour supporters. Or on the other hand, if you aren't going to "play that game", perhaps you might think twice about sounding off with unsupported assertions.

[Bryn]

No I don't. But it's easy to select those web surveys and polls that support your own viewpoint. I'm not going to play that game.

And if Agent Cob and his party are so innocent then why didn't he answer Andrew Neil's question ? Agent Cob is spineless.

Which particular Andrew Neil question (bear in mind you have only now introduced Neil into this thread). The excessively childish use of distortions of Corbyn's name in your posts does any argument you may have no favours.