BBC Four HD at risk

[Anastasius]

Apparently BBC Four HD 'lives' on interim multiplexers (muxes) that always were 'interim' and so destined to closure at some time in the future so that the spectrum could be sold to mobile providers. That's already happened round our way as the Caldbeck TX has lost these muxes. So now all those marvellous art and music programmes are, well, less marvellous in Mushy-Vision SD.

These closures coming soon to a TX near you. So unless 'we' can convince the BBC to swap BBC Four for something less-deserving (!!) on their other muxes then we'll all be watching the Proms in Mushy-Vision.

Funnily enough in our house I find that my wife has no concept of the difference between the two (HD or SD) but speaking as an ex-broadcast engineer, it's a bit like going from listening to a studio master tape to a wax cylinder.

[kernelbogey]

I get the drift, Anastasius (and feel some concern), but I'm well out of my depth on technicalities. Is this just about the sound or is it also about the picture?

[CGR]

Apparently BBC Four HD 'lives' on interim multiplexers (muxes) that always were 'interim' and so destined to closure at some time in the future so that the spectrum could be sold to mobile providers. That's already happened round our way as the Caldbeck TX has lost these muxes. So now all those marvellous art and music programmes are, well, less marvellous in Mushy-Vision SD.

These closures coming soon to a TX near you. So unless 'we' can convince the BBC to swap BBC Four for something less-deserving (!!) on their other muxes then we'll all be watching the Proms in Mushy-Vision.

Funnily enough in our house I find that my wife has no concept of the difference between the two (HD or SD) but speaking as an ex-broadcast engineer, it's a bit like going from listening to a studio master tape to a wax cylinder.

I almost never watch live TV apart from sport. I record on my Sky box and watch when I want to or download from iPlayer etc. so that I can spin through the ads. The storage limits on my Sky box mean that I never record or download something I may want to keep in HD. So I rarely watch anything other than live sport in HD.

[Dave2002]

I get the drift, Anastasius (and feel some concern), but I'm well out of my depth on technicalities. Is this just about the sound or is it also about the picture?

Possibly both I'd think, but most of the bandwidth requirement is for the picture - so the picture quality will be reduced. Possibly the BBC might fiddle with the codecs - which is the sort of thing they've done in the past with a claim that they can keep the quality up despite squeezing the transmitted data (they did that with R3 DAB - remember ...). They might also claim that for viewers who watch via the internet, that the quality will be maintained - so watch out for that line of argument.

It does seem to be true that some people really can't tell the difference between UHD, HD and SD - and for watching some programmes it arguably makes little difference anyway, but for high quality video (e.g. some nature programmes, gardening programmes and actually sport) it can make a huge difference for those who are aware of it.

It is possible that for the types of programme which BBC Four puts out, the perceived differences might be marginal. For example, does Spiral look better in UHD, HD or SD?

[Bryn]

I get the drift, Anastasius (and feel some concern), but I'm well out of my depth on technicalities. Is this just about the sound or is it also about the picture?

It's both. For Standard Definition, audio is cariried in the mp2 CODEC used also for DAB (though the data rate may be somewhat higher - 256 kbps, as against 192 or 160 kbpps for Rqadio 3 DAB). The video aspect is in considerablhy higher definition in HD. Where I live, BBC FOUR has never been available to recieve in HD via Freeview. However, I find the iPlayer HD offereing quite acceptable, though how that compares to the broadcast HD version I do not know.

Ouch! Looks like the data rate for BBC FOUR HD only averages 144kbps aac (presumably AAC-HE), so not so different in percieved quality from 256 kbps mp2 (a much less efficient CODEC). http://en.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php...live=9&lang=en

[CGR]

...

It is possible that for the types of programme which BBC Four puts out, the perceived differences might be marginal. For example, does Spiral look better in UHD, HD or SD?

I don't think it would have made one iota of difference to the excellent programmes on Quantum Physics currently being repeated on BBC Four. My mind would be equally boggled in HD as SD. They are keepers, to be re-watched.

[zola]

So now all those marvellous art and music programmes are, well, less marvellous in Mushy-Vision SD.

There was a time when I might have cared but sadly now I can only ask, what marvellous art and music programmes ?

[Bryn]

I don't think it would have made one iota of difference to the excellent programmes on Quantum Physics currently being repeated on BBC Four. My mind would be equally boggled in HD as SD. They are keepers, to be re-watched.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04tr9x9

First broadcast nearly 5 years ago. Keepers indeed.

[gurnemanz]

There was a time when I might have cared but sadly now I can only ask, what marvellous art and music programmes ?

Some quite good stuff around, if you sort grain from chaff. Recently come to mind:

Watched Metamorphosis last night, a repeat which I missed the first time.

Jonathan Meades on architecture in Franco's Spain

Cyprus Avenue with Stephen Rea (details here no longer available)

Andrew Graham-Dixon on the art forger Van Meegeren (still available)

Bauhaus 100

Proms relays over the summer.

[Bryn]

I have just checked the iPlayer 'HD' data rate for the audio of the Metamorphosis progrmme mentioned above. It's a mere average 131kbps AAC-LC, so around 40% of that used for the Radio 3 HD Sound(s) option.

[LMcD]

Freesat currently carries BBC 4 HD (channel 107) and BBC 4 SD (channel 173). Does this mean that the SD might get bumped up to channel 7?

[Anastasius]

I get the drift, Anastasius (and feel some concern), but I'm well out of my depth on technicalities. Is this just about the sound or is it also about the picture?

I'm not sure..sorry.

[Anastasius]

....
It is possible that for the types of programme which BBC Four puts out, the perceived differences might be marginal. For example, does Spiral look better in UHD, HD or SD?

I'd love to have been able to do a comparison and report back but...no BBC Four HD now. We were switched off a year early due to penny-pinching by Arqiva.

Certainly I can tell the difference on programmes on BBC 1 and 2

[Dave2002]

I'd love to have been able to do a comparison and report back but...no BBC Four HD now. We were switched off a year early due to penny-pinching by Arqiva.

Certainly I can tell the difference on programmes on BBC 1 and 2

Indeed I'm sure you can tell the difference on some programmes, but perhaps not all of them. My comment re BBC Four relates partly to the types of programmes which are shown on that channel. Some of the BBC1 and BBC2 programmes wouldn't look significantly worse in SD than HD or UHD, and the same can be said of some ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 programmes. The best programmes technically, some of which are shown on BBC2 and perhaps occasionally on BBC1, will definitely look better on HD or UHD sets. However, perhaps not all programmes are produced to the same technically high standards, or maybe more correctly, at the broadcast end they are high quality, but once sent off into the transmission network quality reduces. Some stations, BBC ones included, work on the assumption that quality is measured in some way by minimising the number of complaints. This is just one measure, and does not really take into account technical quality. Quiz programmes for example, do not generally rely on high technical quality in order to be enjoyed.