NHS - a view

[Dave2002]

I’m with this writer - https://time.com/5708811/american-br...wsletter-brief

[Pianorak]

Writer and comedian Adam Kay is the author of, "This is Going to Hurt," about his time as a junior doctor.

That book is both hilarious and very depressing. A must-read IMV.

[Dave2002]

Writer and comedian Adam Kay is the author of, "This is Going to Hurt," about his time as a junior doctor.

That book is both hilarious and very depressing. A must-read IMV.

I didn’t make the connection - thanks for pointing it out. I may have that book in my list of Kindle books “to be read”.

Actually there is a health service in the USA, and I heard of a couple of people who used it and found it was OK. One was a case of someone who fell ill suddenly and went straight to a public hospital. She had health insurance - so that in itself wasn’t a problem - but the treatment she needed was urgent. Eventually she was moved to a private hospital, but only after a few days when the hospital doctors decided it was safe for her to be transferred. The other case wasn’t quite the same, but I gather the treatment was OK and effective. These were told to me by people I knew when we lived in CA.

What is really bad in the US is the lack of health care for poor people and immigrants. Infant mortality among such groups is very bad, and comparable with some third world countries, whereas those who pay probably have mortality rates which are amongst the lowest in the world, along with Finland, Sweden etc. That is really inexcusable, as many of the problems are with people who are otherwise healthy, and the problems they experience are in many cases completely avoidable.

[Serial_Apologist]

This is a timely thread, given putative post-Brexit threats of a Trumpian takeover of the NHS.

[pastoralguy]

Here's a cautionary tale!

I have a friend who lives in Washington called Samantha who, as well as being a government scientist was also a phenomenal cyclist. So much so that she was on the shortlist for the U.S. Cycling Team. Alas, Samantha had an accident and came off her bike and ended up in hospital. She had a fully funded health care package so there was no problem with her treatment.

Her consultant decided he would operate on her knee and a nurse and a student came in to complete the paperwork. There's a LOT of paperwork! During the interview an emergency arose and the paperwork was continued under the student who, through inexperience, forgot to tick a vital box. The result was that my friend Samantha woke up after her operation SCREAMING in pain BECAUSE THE BOX THAT AUTHORISED AND CONFIRMED PAYMENT OF POST-OP PAIN CONTROL HADN'T BEEN TICKED!!

And until she'd paid with her own credit card in her post op. stupor, there were no drugs forthcoming! Someone had noticed during the operation that these was a discrepancy and so the decision was made to withhold pain control. Samantha did take legal action and won but she told me she'll never forget the pain.

[pastoralguy]

This is a timely thread, given putative post-Brexit threats of a Trumpian takeover of the NHS.

[richardfinegold]

I didn’t make the connection - thanks for pointing it out. I may have that book in my list of Kindle books “to be read”.

Actually there is a health service in the USA, and I heard of a couple of people who used it and found it was OK. One was a case of someone who fell ill suddenly and went straight to a public hospital. She had health insurance - so that in itself wasn’t a problem - but the treatment she needed was urgent. Eventually she was moved to a private hospital, but only after a few days when the hospital doctors decided it was safe for her to be transferred. The other case wasn’t quite the same, but I gather the treatment was OK and effective. These were told to me by people I knew when we lived in CA.

What is really bad in the US is the lack of health care for poor people and immigrants. Infant mortality among such groups is very bad, and comparable with some third world countries, whereas those who pay probably have mortality rates which are amongst the lowest in the world, along with Finland, Sweden etc. That is really inexcusable, as many of the problems are with people who are otherwise healthy, and the problems they experience are in many cases completely avoidable.

I’ve been working in the past 3 years in a neighborhood where 2/3 of our Patients are with Black or Hispanic. One thing that has my Colleagues and I baffled are the elderly Mexican Nationals, non Citizens with Green Cards, that live most of the year in Mexico but come for extended visits in the States, but are brought to our offices by their offspring requesting that we “do everything “.
Apparently their Green Card entitles them to the same benefits as a Native Medicare patient.
The other interesting phenomenon that I have seen is it is now easier to get costly studies and treatments through the Public Sector, Medicare and Medicaid, than through the supposedly better Private Insurances. A good example is a 62 year old man who hurt his back when he was mugged. We tried 3 times to get his MRI approved from his employer provided insurance. After the third rejection he was fired by his employer for not returning to work. He had to take Medicaid and I immediately got approval for an MRI. This is not an outlier case. Fully half of Insurance Premiums are “administrative” which means they are paying a bunch of people to figure out ways to reject claims. Usually these people are incentivized—their bonuses are tied to how much they save the company.
I do not recognize the scenario that PG describes. My suspicion is that there was a delay getting post operative pain medication for some other reason and that his friend, who was bewildered by the bureaucracy at the beginning of her stay, attributed her delay in treatment to an insurance issue. My own son had a ventral hernia repair at the Hospital wher I was an Attending a few years ago. I was very conscious not to throw my weight around, but after an hour and a half of watching him in agonyI raised bloody hell
about he’s pain medication. The delay was caused by a new Nurse who didn’t know how to work the Pixus machine that releases the Narcotic and she didn’t want to admit her deficiency. That kind of problem is the more likely explanation for PGs friend

[richardfinegold]

This is a timely thread, given putative post-Brexit threats of a Trumpian takeover of the NHS.

Educate a furriner here. The NHS existed prior to the U.K. being in the E.U., correct? Why would leaving the EU cause it’s demise?

[gradus]

Educate a furriner here. The NHS existed prior to the U.K. being in the E.U., correct? Why would leaving the EU cause it’s demise?

It is widely held that the Conservatives intend to privatise more of the NHS post-Brexit and that in a future Free Trade deal with the US, Trump will insist on unfettered access for US health providers to the services currently provided by the NHS with all that could mean in terms of dismantling the NHS structure and moving away from our free at the point of delivery service, as well as threatening the jobs of existing employees and worsening of terms and conditions of employment and pay - inter alia.

[LHC]

It is widely held that the Conservatives intend to privatise more of the NHS post-Brexit and that in a future Free Trade deal with the US, Trump will insist on unfettered access for US health providers to the services currently provided by the NHS with all that could mean in terms of dismantling the NHS structure and moving away from our free at the point of delivery service, as well as threatening the jobs of existing employees and worsening of terms and conditions of employment and pay - inter alia.

Isn’t this simply the latest iteration in Labour’s long standing conspiracy theory that the Tories are about to privatise the NHS despite very little evidence that they are going to do so? Indeed, I think the biggest increase in the use of private providers to provide NHS services took place when Andy Burnham was Blair’s Health Minister. As some one pointed out when these latest claims started:

“There are only three certainties in life: death, taxes and Labour claiming the Tories are about to privatise the NHS. For 62 per cent of the NHS’s lifespan — 15,978 of 25,902 days — it has been in the hands of Tory governments, and yet Britain’s socialised healthcare system remains stubbornly socialised.”

[Joseph K]

Isn’t this simply the latest iteration in Labour’s long standing conspiracy theory that the Tories are about to privatise the NHS despite very little evidence that they are going to do so?

Why then did the Tories vote against Labour's recent motion to protect the NHS from privatisation?

[muzzer]

That aside, the context in which any negotiation with a Trump “led” US would take place would inevitably mean that absolutely everything would be up for “discussion”. If you’ve ever negotiated with anyone in the US at a corporate level, you will appreciate the nature of the interaction. Trump would give his trade dept carte blanche. And then play the UK off against the (obviously much larger) EU. It would be a complete disaster, and the U.K. would be forced to accept terms so bad no one has so far had the guts to contemplate them. Moreover, as the U.K. would no longer be subject to the EU’s wider legal system, for example as to packaging labelling, it would be free pretty much to set its own rules as to what consumers would be told.

[MrGongGong]

Why then did the Tories vote against Labour's recent motion to protect the NHS from privatisation?

To be fair that was a bit of posturing by Labour

BUT you know you can't trust experts

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/27/government-deliberately-creating-health-crisis-privatise-nhs/

[LHC]

Why then did the Tories vote against Labour's recent motion to protect the NHS from privatisation?

The motion simply expressed regret that the 2012 Health and Social Care Act was not being repealed, so even if it had passed, it wouldn't have had any effect. Furthermore, the 2012 Act did not introduce privatisation into the NHS; that was done by the previous Labour Government, so even if the 2012 Act was to be repealed, this would not in itself 'protect the NHS from privatisation'. As Mr GG says, it was just a bit of posturing intended to embarrass the Government.

[richardfinegold]

Well, over here the Democrats are falling all over themselves to see who can out-Socialize each other. The main concern is that the winner of the Democratic Nomination will have moved so far Left that the Centrist voters will be alienated enough to either vote for Trump or note vote.
Personally I am ready to implement an NHS, and put the Private Insurers out of business. If that were to happen it would be kind of ironic if the U.K. went in the opposite direction