VirginMedia giving up in central London 31.1.12. Advice appreciated...

[Nick Armstrong]

Got a letter this week saying Virgin are stopping TV and broadband services in central London (the old Westminster Cable area) at the end of January.

So that's Goodbye to my sweet 30Mbps Internet; dodgy analogue Television; and rather good, interference-free cable FM Radio.

I saw the 'changing internet provider' thread: Talk Talk & BT getting various thumbs down.

Ideally I would like good HD TV, fast internet and good FM radio from the same supplier.

The fastest internet service I can see for London other than Virgin is 20Mbps... Seems to be another example of technology going in reverse - no more Concorde, no more space shuttle, no more super-fast internet. What the hell's going on? Money talking, I suppose.

Anyway - any recommendations anyone? A major factor is that this is a lower ground floor garden flat - no conventional aerial, no satellite dish connection, and it's 6 floors up to the roof. Reluctant to shell out hundreds and hundreds for special installations, but I may have to...

Will I be sent instantly to Coventry if I take Sky TV & Internet? What about Freeview?

Damn Virgin

[salymap]

Morning Caliban, I am complete non-techy but would it not be possible to share the cost with the other people above you? I have a friend who is in a similar situation and a dish was jointly financed.

[Nick Armstrong]

Morning Caliban, I am complete non-techy but would it not be possible to share the cost with the other people above you? I have a friend who is in a similar situation and a dish was jointly financed.

I had indeed wondered about that, saly - need to find out if anyone's in the same boat as me, and wants in, if I decide to go down the 'dish' route.

[scottycelt]

I'm utterly gobsmacked there's no BT Infinity (40meg) in Central London .. ?

I used to use, er, SKY for both TV and Broadband but recently switched to Infinity for Broadband as the Sky max was 20meg, and it's been just fine .. so far!

Apart from the appalling customer service due to those wretched call-centres, I have to say, though, that all things considered I thought the SKY deal the best of the lot and only changed to get faster Broadband.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm utterly gobsmacked there's no BT Infinity (40meg) in Central London .. ?

I used to use, er, SKY for both TV and Broadband but recently switched to Infinity for Broadband as the Sky max was 20meg, and it's been just fine .. so far!

Apart from the appalling customer service due to those wretched call-centres, I have to say, though, that all things considered I thought the SKY deal the best of the lot and only changed to get faster Broadband.

Scotty thanks - that's my thinking too, but indeed it is the case that "up to" 20 Mbps (i.e. probably 10 - 15 in reality) is the fastest anyone offers in central London, other than Virgin until January

It's exasperating. I think we are reaping the rotten harvest of having been first with cable etc in the 90s (my place already had it when I moved in in '92) - it means all the kit is now out of date, and what with the waning economy, Virgin can't afford to upgrade, BT (whose network Virgin use) haven't upgraded either.

I specifically checked the Infinity page on the BT website using the postcode checker, and was informed that there were no plans for Infinity to be made available in my area (between Marble Arch and Notting Hill) for the next 6 months at least.

I'd particularly value guidance about radio. How would I connect my 20 year old tuner to put radio through my hifi if I were to use Sky or BT? (At the moment, I have a separate cable supply that runs like an aerial to the back of the tuner, and provides wonderful crystal clear FM)

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

have you tried the broadband comparison sites caliban eg or?

i use be or bethere and replaced Plus with the Be service as it is often the best reviewed for speed, but does not offer tv ... i have been pleased with the service in operation and the generally helpful support operation ... ...., you can get Sky channels over any broadband connection .... if you go the dish route it does not have to be Sky, there is a Freeview satellite Dish offer available as well

[Dave2002]

Caliban

Any idea why they're giving up? I actually have shares in VMED, so curious to know what's going on. Seems poor to me.

[Nick Armstrong]

Caliban

Any idea why they're giving up? I actually have shares in VMED, so curious to know what's going on. Seems poor to me.

The letter says "As we have to rely on BT's network in the Westminster area, we're not able to give you the next generation TV, superfast broadband and value for money that Virgin media aime to give all its customers"

akaCdJ thanks for the links - hadn't heard of BE... I shall investigate.

Generally it seems that in the absence of cable, all internet comes through the phone wire... even Sky? And therefore any internet service I get after Virgin cut the cable is going to be subject to this caveat on the SKY website:

"Broadband speeds
Please note your connection speed may not match the speed estimate we provided - this does not necessarily mean there's a fault on your line. Broadband speeds can vary and are influenced by the distance to your exchange, the quality of your telephone wiring as well as worldwide peak internet usage times (5pm till 12am GMT) which can also slow your speeds at different times during the day."

pathetic... I've never had to deal with this. It all seems very retrograde.

[Dave2002]

The letter says "As we have to rely on BT's network in the Westminster area, we're not able to give you the next generation TV, superfast broadband and value for money that Virgin media aime to give all its customers"

akaCdJ thanks for the links - hadn't heard of BE... I shall investigate.

Generally it seems that in the absence of cable, all internet comes through the phone wire... even Sky? And therefore any internet service I get after Virgin cut the cable is going to be subject to this caveat on the SKY website:
.

But what are you getting right now? I assumed that you already had cable installed, so why is the company reverting back to BT? Is this a technical issue, or a commercial/political one? If there's cable already why would a company revert back to ADSL or similar and use BT? Also seems anti-competitive to me.

Your statement "in the absence of cable, all internet comes through the phone wire... even Sky?" is generally true, but if you've already got cable, then why the change? Skulduggery somewhere maybe. Who's getting a kick back?

[Nick Armstrong]

But what are you getting right now? I assumed that you already had cable installed, so why is the company reverting back to BT? Is this a technical issue, or a commercial/political one? If there's cable already why would a company revert back to ADSL or similar and use BT? Also seems anti-competitive to me.

Your statement "in the absence of cable, all internet comes through the phone wire... even Sky?" is generally true, but if you've already got cable, then why the change? Skulduggery somewhere maybe. Who's getting a kick back?

I'm getting cable, and have been since the days of Westminster cable via NTL then Virgin. The cable service in some way uses BT's network

But the cable service / network is going to be redundant when Virgin cease operating it. They are just stopping. (Incidentally, the TV service I'm getting from them is still analogue - things like 'red buttons' etc are unknown to Virgin subscribers living in W1 / W2... )

[Anna]

I've been with Virgin for a long time, but via ADSL, not cable (there are no cables here nor ever likely to be), so if you stick with Virgin via ADSL can they tell you what speeds you can get? A good plan is to ask your adjacent neighbours who their ISP is and what speeds they are getting.

You mentioned Freeview, you need an aerial for that but being in central London you should be able to receive all channels, go to the Freeview homepage and enter your postcode.

[mangerton]

I'd particularly value guidance about radio. How would I connect my 20 year old tuner to put radio through my hifi if I were to use Sky or BT? (At the moment, I have a separate cable supply that runs like an aerial to the back of the tuner, and provides wonderful crystal clear FM)

Caliban, Your Virgin analogue service provides what is in effect an FM aerial which is connected to your FM tuner. Digital TV/internet services will not do this. The only way you will continue to get the crystal clear FM which you so rightly value is to provide your own FM aerial. I would imagine that in your location this would have to be roof mounted. Without an aerial your FM tuner will, I fear, be redundant.

Freeview, Freesat, Sky satellite TV and t'internet will all provide digital radio services at various (probably inadequate) bit rates and with various nasty processes being applied before they reach your house. You'll be able to take an audio output at line level from whichever of these digital sources you decide to use and connect that to your hifi system. However, in spite of what the BBC and other people who should know better would have us believe, these digital services will not provide as good a sound as analogue FM.

Such is progress.

[Nick Armstrong]

Caliban, Your Virgin analogue service provides what is in effect an FM aerial which is connected to your FM tuner. Digital TV/internet services will not do this. The only way you will continue to get the crystal clear FM which you so rightly value is to provide your own FM aerial. I would imagine that in your location this would have to be roof mounted. Without an aerial your FM tuner will, I fear, be redundant.

Freeview, Freesat, Sky satellite TV and t'internet will all provide digital radio services at various (probably inadequate) bit rates and with various nasty processes being applied before they reach your house. You'll be able to take an audio output at line level from whichever of these digital sources you decide to use and connect that to your hifi system. However, in spite of what the BBC and other people who should know better would have us believe, these digital services will not provide as good a sound as analogue FM.

Such is progress.

Mangerton, that is very helpful, thanks - that's clarified something I didn't understand... I think I need a proper aerial, which probably means I shall go for Freeview rather than a dish based system for TV. Progress sometimes seems to be in reverse, I agree....

I might try BE for internet, as per Calum's suggestion above - I'd never heard of BE before... anyone else use them or have any reports about BE?

Oh and Anna - Virgin are simply shutting up shop: no cable, no adsl, no anything (save mobile telephone services)

[Dave2002]

I'm getting cable, and have been since the days of Westminster cable via NTL then Virgin. The cable service in some way uses BT's network

But the cable service / network is going to be redundant when Virgin cease operating it. They are just stopping. (Incidentally, the TV service I'm getting from them is still analogue - things like 'red buttons' etc are unknown to Virgin subscribers living in W1 / W2... )

Sounds as though they never had a digital cable package in your area then, which is a bit of a surprise. Perhaps your area was an early adopter of cable, went for analogue, and never upgraded.

Re Freeview, which you seem to be considering, I'd probably recommend a Humax PVR - maybe even an HD one, as that way you can record many of the radio programmes fairly easily without the need to hang wires off your tuner or TV set. It'll cost more, but these devices are much more flexible than units which only pick up the signals without recording them. You can export the audio files if you need to via a USB connection to a hard drive or USB stick.

[Nick Armstrong]

Sounds as though they never had a digital cable package in your area then, which is a bit of a surprise. Perhaps your area was an early adopter of cable, went for analogue, and never upgraded.

That's precisely the situation. As mentioned above, on moving in back in 1992, Westminster cable was already long-installed, and it all seemed terribly modern. But the complexity of updgrading (esp in Westminster with gazillions of flats and offices) plus the economic climate meant that Westminster Cable's successors in title NTL and then Virgin Media never got round to it and have now abandoned the idea. Red buttons and fibre-optic cables are modernisms only dreamt of by us backwoodsfolk in central London....

Re Freeview, which you seem to be considering, I'd probably recommend a Humax PVR - maybe even an HD one, as that way you can record many of the radio programmes fairly easily without the need to hang wires off your tuner or TV set. It'll cost more, but these devices are much more flexible than units which only pick up the signals without recording them. You can export the audio files if you need to via a USB connection to a hard drive or USB stick.

Thanks Dave, you confirm my thinking - I've just been having that very converstion (minus the last sentence) with a very good company that's coming round on Monday to upgrade / instal a proper aerial, etc., and maybe it'll be digital switchover at Casa Caliban...

(I may come back to on the audio file / USB angle. Does that mean I can record concerts on the digital Radio 3 feed via freeview, and then copy them over to my Mac via an external hard drive?)

One other question: is there any point in installing a proper FM aerial on the roof to preserve my ability to get high quality FM through the tuner and HiFi speakers? Is analogue FM going to be switched off in 2012? Excuse ignorance, I haven't been keeping up....