VirginMedia giving up in central London 31.1.12. Advice appreciated...

[Anna]

I too would put in a recommendation for a Humax box. My brother has recently had one installed and it's absolutely marvellous. Offhand cannot recall model no. but it's a twin tuner and not cheap but it does everything except wash the dishes! However, whilst I can understand Virgin not ungrading their cable operation, surely they are not withdrawing the normal broadband down a telephone line as Caliban says they are in #13, that seems totally barking to me. I don't think a date has been set for analogue FM switch off, that would be impossible to do until everyone can get DAB via a radio (we have no DAB here except via a computer or satellite tv) In fact, I still listen to R4 LW on my vintage Bush Radio as FM is next to useless!

Edit: Bryn is the expert on aerials and techy stuff, if he's reading this thread his info would be invaluable.

[Nick Armstrong]

I too would put in a recommendation for a Humax box. My brother has recently had one installed and it's absolutely marvellous. Offhand cannot recall model no. but it's a twin tuner and not cheap but it does everything except wash the dishes! However, whilst I can understand Virgin not ungrading their cable operation, surely they are not withdrawing the normal broadband down a telephone line as Caliban says they are in #13, that seems totally barking to me. I don't think a date has been set for analogue FM switch off, that would be impossible to do until everyone can get DAB via a radio (we have no DAB here except via a computer or satellite tv) In fact, I still listen to R4 LW on my vintage Bush Radio as FM is next to useless!

Edit: Bryn is the expert on aerials and techy stuff, if he's reading this thread his info would be invaluable.

Oh thanks Anna! Humax seems to get the vote!

And yes, barking it is: the letter from Virgin specifically says that the only services left from them in our area are Virgin Mobile telephone and Mobile broadband.

Good news about FM

[Dave2002]

Caliban

Various organisations are aiming at a 2015 date for FM switch off, but it's very unlikely to happen then. It might just happen by around 2018.

Re a Humax PVR - yes, it should be possible to transfer audio files to a Mac. As the files come off they might need to be played with a tool such as VLC, but it should be possible to demultiplex the file into appropriate audio files - perhaps mp2 (which some mp3 players will play), or maybe other formats depending on the channel recorded. Video can also be saved. I'm expecting that the only difficulty will be copying large video files - usually HD or very long files. Files over 4 Gbytes can be stored, but not on a drive formatted in FAT32 or NTFS. I think you need an EXT3 formatted drive, which is OK with Linux. Converting back to a file which can be used on a Mac or PC may take some effort!

[Nick Armstrong]

Caliban

Various organisations are aiming at a 2015 date for FM switch off, but it's very unlikely to happen then. It might just happen by around 2018.

Re a Humax PVR - yes, it should be possible to transfer audio files to a Mac. As the files come off they might need to be played with a tool such as VLC, but it should be possible to demultiplex the file into appropriate audio files - perhaps mp2 (which some mp3 players will play), or maybe other formats depending on the channel recorded. Video can also be saved. I'm expecting that the only difficulty will be copying large video files - usually HD or very long files. Files over 4 Gbytes can be stored, but not on a drive formatted in FAT32 or NTFS. I think you need an EXT3 formatted drive, which is OK with Linux. Converting back to a file which can be used on a Mac or PC may take some effort!

I'll get the ******* thing installed before worrying about all that, then

Good to know you're out there, though, Dave

[mangerton]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, Dave, but if Caliban is currently listening to R3 through a good FM tuner and what appears to be a good hifi, how is he going to HEAR music in future? Through the tiny tinny speakers on a laptop? That certainly would not satisfy me.

I have a Virgin V+ box which can record two TV/radio channels in HD while you watch/listen to a third. It's connected to my hifi, and if I want to keep anything I can burn a DVD or CD, both of which are connected to my hifi too. Seems to me the way to go - watch and listen on a decent sized screen and speakers.

[Dave2002]

We can argue about whether FM is better than digital. I don't really want to go there. For recording concerts I have recently been finding that using a Freesat PVR has a lot of advantages. One could of course record in real time from whatever preferred channel or distribution using either digital or analogue recording devices. I believe that either of the Freesat or Freeview PVRs from Humax are really rather good, and serve a purpose. I was going to suggest that CDs or music files can be made once the data has been captured on such a PVR, but I suspect that some of the newest devices can actually function as music servers using an ethernet connection, and very good results may be obtained by feeding the data stream into a suitable DA converter device - for example maybe a Logitech Squeezebox, and then the anologue output fed to a hifi setup. i am definitely not suggesting listening via grotty little computer speakers.

[mangerton]

Dave - No, I don't want to argue FM v digital either. I was really thinking about the hifi v computer argument for sound reproduction. I don't think we disagree on that! I have a good FM tuner which I can't use because good FM reception where I live is not possible. Fortunately, the sound from the V+ box using its built in DAC is quite acceptable.

[Dave2002]

mangerton

I think we are broadly in agreement. I would expect caliban to find using a PVR very helpful compared to simply a TV tuner, and most people use these just for TV. Of course most new TVs do have a Freeview tuner build in, but don't provide the convenience of pause, time shifting, and the ability to skip through adverts. I also use our PVR for radio recording, and although I don't normally do it, it's possible to have the things set up to record whole series, such as CD Review. For convenience these devices give a lot of benefits. This with an interest in high quality recording from FM or the Internet will find other solutions.

[mangerton]

Dave - Yes, absolutely. The V+ box has a PVR included, and as you say for recording programmes and series, it's brilliant. And of course I'll never have to watch an advert again.

[scottycelt]

Dave - Yes, absolutely. The V+ box has a PVR included, and as you say for recording programmes and series, it's brilliant. And of course I'll never have to watch an advert again.

Trouble is, mangerton, sometimes a good advert can be the sole highlight of an hour's TV viewing ...

The latest one with the meerkats (and family dog) is absolutely brilliant, though I can't remember the actual product the particular company involved is intent on promoting, which rather defeats the whole purpose of the exercise in the first place?

[BetweenTheStaves]

Not so fast, Caliban, re choice of PVR. I don't believe that it is that easy to get/transfer your digital recording into your Mac for a number of reasons. Firstly, that not all PVR's have a suitable digital feed out. Secondly, even if they have, I seem to remember reading somewhere or other that many PVR manufacturers adopt their own disk format which means that it isn't easily readable even were you to remove the hard drive and stick it into a caddy to connect as an external drive to your Mac. Thirdly, what third-party software gizmos might be out there to help you get around points (1) and (2) are nearly all aimed at the PC.

I have five PVR's of various vintages and makes....partly historic but partly because of the software complexity in them coupled with the fact that many of the standards re broadcasting digits/information/EPG etc were never properly/finally agreed, various manufacturer's adopted their own 'interpretation' with the result that sometimes PVR A will record ontime and for the right duration Programme X but PVR B won't but will be OK recording a series of Programme Z. So I belt and brace key recordings. We rarely watch TV live but from one of the PVR's. On an average commercial channel broadcast we win 20 minutes per hour as we skip over ads and trailers. But I digress.

I have a Sony that allows me to record programmes to DVD. So if I want to record something that I know I want to transfer to the Mac then I will record it first on the PVR then burn it to DVD. Stick the DVD in the Mac but then the fun starts because the PVR has recorded the Radio programme as a video ...only without the video....and so you have to run a program on the Mac to extract the audio. All very cumbersome and longwinded which is why I generally use something like iRecordMusic on the Mac and record off the internet. I have no super-duper hi-fi system and so am not too worried about ultimate hi-fi.

Lastly you might be better off asking the question re PVR with a direct audio output suitable for a Mac over on the avforums website.

Hope that helps.

[Nick Armstrong]

Not so fast, Caliban, re choice of PVR. I don't believe that it is that easy to get/transfer your digital recording into your Mac for a number of reasons. Firstly, that not all PVR's have a suitable digital feed out. Secondly, even if they have, I seem to remember reading somewhere or other that many PVR manufacturers adopt their own disk format which means that it isn't easily readable even were you to remove the hard drive and stick it into a caddy to connect as an external drive to your Mac. Thirdly, what third-party software gizmos might be out there to help you get around points (1) and (2) are nearly all aimed at the PC.

I have five PVR's of various vintages and makes....partly historic but partly because of the software complexity in them coupled with the fact that many of the standards re broadcasting digits/information/EPG etc were never properly/finally agreed, various manufacturer's adopted their own 'interpretation' with the result that sometimes PVR A will record ontime and for the right duration Programme X but PVR B won't but will be OK recording a series of Programme Z. So I belt and brace key recordings. We rarely watch TV live but from one of the PVR's. On an average commercial channel broadcast we win 20 minutes per hour as we skip over ads and trailers. But I digress.

I have a Sony that allows me to record programmes to DVD. So if I want to record something that I know I want to transfer to the Mac then I will record it first on the PVR then burn it to DVD. Stick the DVD in the Mac but then the fun starts because the PVR has recorded the Radio programme as a video ...only without the video....and so you have to run a program on the Mac to extract the audio. All very cumbersome and longwinded which is why I generally use something like iRecordMusic on the Mac and record off the internet. I have no super-duper hi-fi system and so am not too worried about ultimate hi-fi.

Lastly you might be better off asking the question re PVR with a direct audio output suitable for a Mac over on the avforums website.

Hope that helps.

BTS thanks (and to everyone who has chipped in here). I shall beware! Actually I logged on to avforums yesterday for the first time in ages (since buying my current Sony TV two years ago) and it is good advice to have a poke around there, in the matter of PVRs

Currently and for the last 3 years or more, I have achieved the same sort of thing by using my video recorder, which as well as VHS and DVD has a large Hard Drive (Panasonic). It is set to record the relatively small collection of progs watched regularly, and most watching is done from that.

A propos: do you know the answer to this one - a great feature of the Panasonic is that one can 'partial delete' recorded material. Hence I have built up a collection of favourite moments - for instance a two minute highlight from a sporting event, a single piece from an otherwise lacklustre concert... The ability to keep just 2 or 20 minutes from a 3 hour recording is fab.

Do any Freeview PVRs have this 'partial delete' feature, do you know?

[Dave2002]

BTS

I agree that there can be problems such as you describe, but the latest Humax models are really not difficult to work with - apart from the transfer of HD files which are bigger than 4 Gbytes. They also have a digital optical output which can be used to feed a hi-fi system through a DAC - for those who have such things. There is really little difficulty in transferring smaller files to run on a Mac. I just plug my drive in, and I can run straight from that, or transfer the files to my iMac.

There could be other PVR models which are good, and indeed when we started with the PVRs a few years ago then the "best" model was apparently a Digifusion. We had one, but it went wrong, and I just managed to get a Humax replacement within the year's guarantee - only just made it though. Despite some problems, I think the Humaxes are pretty good.

I guess the first thing Caliban wants to do is to get his service up and running again, and then decide on what to do next. If there's a change in provider, then check for the static vs dynamic IP address issue I mentioned in another thread. It's not a problem for most people, but good to be aware of it as a potential issue.

[mangerton]

Do any Freeview PVRs have this 'partial delete' feature, do you know?

I don't know for sure, Caliban, but 3 or so years ago I got (and still have) a Toshiba PVR with analogue tuner and DVD recorder with that facility so I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get one. Great as you say for keeping small extracts - or for removing adverts from recordings before burning a DVD.

[BetweenTheStaves]

.... I just plug my drive in, and I can run straight from that, or transfer the files to my iMac.

....

Can you tell me a little more, please? Do you remove the drive from the Humax (which model?) and then put it in an enclosure with a Firewire or USB interface?

Caliban, the Sony PVR we have lets you split/delete/partially erase recordings with ease. It's a pretty good PVR albeit can only record one channel at a time.