Wood burning stove/boiler

[Dave2002]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-war-in-the-us

Burning gas (gas boilers, gas stoves - even some electricity generation) is using fossil fuels. We are all guilty. I have a woodburner. In this cold weather I put one (kiln-dried beech) log on at 7 pm, a second at 8pm, and that keeps the room warm until I go to bed. As mentioned on another thread, the trees on the Common a stone's throw away from me are covered in lichen, indicating clean air. When they ban woodburners, I will comply. Until then I shall do what I have been doing until now with a clear/clean conscience. I've spent too much money on tfollowing environmental advice for the past 10 years to a) rely on my gas boiler 2) fork out more £000s for a heat pump which in 5 years time will be condemned as the worst thing ever for something or other.

Love them or hate them - induction hobs. Some people like them. I don't, but maybe I really haven't used them enough. Not that I'm a great fan of gas - I know about the difficulties and hazards. I think what really got me about induction hobs is that the size of the pan has to be matched to the size of the heating area - get this wrong, and cooking doesn't work well. Not when I try, anyway.

Re ASHPs - yes I believe they are a good thing - in the right place. However they are better suited to larger houses and households, and one can argue that straight away that's where problems lie. Larger houses and larger households are almost certain to be less eco friendly than small ones. That's where lifestyle choices come in. ASHPs are pretty useless for many small houses, IMO - unless there is some sort of communal heating system, and such systems seem to present other, different, problems.

[Mal]

Has anyone found that burning ash logs causes problems with tar? For years, I burned ash in my old boiler which was simply a large fire box with a flap for a vent and a chimney, and in the open fire. But since I changed a boiler, ash seems to clog up the system in no time. The logs are not kiln dried but supposed to be dry enough to be used in stoves. The new boiler is a ‘modern’ sort with secondary burn etc.. My chimney sweep insists we burn coal (the boiler is multi-fuel) and put in wood just as an addition, which is really not my idea.

There was a superb wood burning stove in the first episode of Norwegian noir thriller Wisting on BBC iPlayer. Not much evidence of coal being used - maybe check out designs/forums from countries with more wood than coal?

[french frank]

Love them or hate them - induction hobs.

I don't love or hate but I have been investigating hobs as a replacement for my gas hob. There are pros and cons. One of the things which makes them less attractive just at the moment is that they use electricity which is more expensive than gas. As with electric vehicles they have their downside.

[Barbirollians]

I don't love or hate but I have been investigating hobs as a replacement for my gas hob. There are pros and cons. One of the things which makes them less attractive just at the moment is that they use electricity which is more expensive than gas. As with electric vehicles they have their downside.

Much easier to clean and just as /almost as speedy as gas - but often far too small rings on which to place a pan - my large frying pan just about copes as the heat conducts well - paella forget it - I would now have to cook that on my camping stove outside !

[Bryn]

I don't love or hate but I have been investigating hobs as a replacement for my gas hob. There are pros and cons. One of the things which makes them less attractive just at the moment is that they use electricity which is more expensive than gas. As with electric vehicles they have their downside.

Fair point. As soon as the energy price rises hit, last autumn, I stopped using an electric kettle and bought a largish camping kettle to use on a gas hob.

[Dave2002]

I don't love or hate but I have been investigating hobs as a replacement for my gas hob. There are pros and cons. One of the things which makes them less attractive just at the moment is that they use electricity which is more expensive than gas. As with electric vehicles they have their downside.

If you have space you can use air fryers to do some of things you might want to do with an oven or hobs. They do use electricity, but nothing like as much. The better ones tend however to be bigger - take up space in the cooking area, and are quite expensive to buy - though it depends whether you consider offsetting the capital outlay against running costs. Ones such as the multi-application Ninjas cost over £200, but according to some cooks are worth it. Microwave ovens are similar in that they can also be more economical with electricity, though again there are size issues, and questions about multi-functionality. Is it better to have a simple one with only microwave cooking (typically £50-£75) vs an all singing, dancing programmable one with convection, grill and microwave options? One good thing about induction hobs - if you get one with several different heating areas which overcomes/reduces the pan size problems I mentioned earlier, is that they are very easy to wipe clean - though you do have to be careful not to do it when still hot.

[french frank]

As soon as the energy price rises hit, last autumn, I stopped using an electric kettle and bought a largish camping kettle to use on a gas hob.

And then they were talking about gas shortages so I bought a portable 2-plate electric hob . It's a complicated world we live in, trying to keep up, especially, with environmental best practice.

[gradus]

And then they were talking about gas shortages so I bought a portable 2-plate electric hob . It's a complicated world we live in, trying to keep up, especially, with environmental best practice.

We've used induction for 18 years and the hob (Neff) is still going strong. I don't think it's particularly expensive to run because it heats pans so quickly and whilst not quite as immediate as gas is pretty biddable. Avoiding combustion makes it cleaner than gas and because the heating areas don't themselves heat up, very easy to keep the hob looking as good as new.

[french frank]

We've used induction for 18 years and the hob (Neff) is still going strong. I don't think it's particularly expensive to run because it heats pans so quickly and whilst not quite as immediate as gas is pretty biddable. Avoiding combustion makes it cleaner than gas and because the heating areas don't themselves heat up, very easy to keep the hob looking as good as new.

I am tempted, especially as I have a separate (Bosch) hob, and electric (Bosch) oven. [As my brother said, "Very reliable, I imagine - what make are they?"]

Most of the pans I used are iron/ stainless steel/magnetic.

[Dave2002]

We've used induction for 18 years and the hob (Neff) is still going strong. I don't think it's particularly expensive to run because it heats pans so quickly and whilst not quite as immediate as gas is pretty biddable. Avoiding combustion makes it cleaner than gas and because the heating areas don't themselves heat up, very easy to keep the hob looking as good as new.

Interesting that you suggest the heating areas of induction hobs don't heat up. I don't think that is quite true. We used to have a couple of induction hobs (two because one failed after a year or so, so actually only one at a time), and as I remember there was a period of 5-10 minutes after use when a red light came on to warn us not to touch. Other than that though, it was indeed possible to clean these easily after use as mentioned earlier. The kinds of things I found difficult were anything which involved taking a pan off the heat or shaking it around. For example making omelettes by rolling butter or oil around in the pan, then positioning the egg mix to get a good shape. There are techniques which might work with pans which don't move the way I wanted them to, but I never found any really good way of doing some types of cooking with induction hobs.

Sometimes the methods used for cooking have to be adapted. For example - some people still use AGAs, and there are electric AGAs. Those would be very expensive to use, and I've heard of people spending £500+ per month for cooking. Whilst those will inevitably be expensive to use, people who expect to use them like conventional ovens and hobs will have huge bills. Doing a fry up for example, should not be done on the top with the hobs, but done by different techniques by putting the pans into the oven instead. Also, some "fried" food such as fried eggs can be done by putting a baking sheet onto the hob, and then putting the egg(s) on to that, and closing the lid down for a few minutes until they are cooked. Leaving the covers on AGAs in the up position drains heat - and gas or electricity - very rapidly. In some houses AGAs are still effective, as they can provide space heating and be used for drying clothes. Still not cheap, but they are a lot more economical if used to greatest effect.

[Bryn]

Interesting that you suggest the heating areas of induction hobs don't heat up. I don't think that is quite true. We used to have a couple of induction hobs (two because one failed after a year or so, so actually only one at a time), and as I remember there was a period of 5-10 minutes after use when a red light came on to warn us not to touch. Other than that though, it was indeed possible to clean these easily after use as mentioned earlier. The kinds of things I found difficult were anything which involved taking a pan off the heat or shaking it around. For example making omelettes by rolling butter or oil around in the pan, then positioning the egg mix to get a good shape. There are techniques which might work with pans which don't move the way I wanted them to, but I never found any really good way of doing some types of cooking with induction hobs.

Sometimes the methods used for cooking have to be adapted. For example - some people still use AGAs, and there are electric AGAs. Those would be very expensive to use, and I've heard of people spending £500+ per month for cooking. Whilst those will inevitably be expensive to use, people who expect to use them like conventional ovens and hobs will have huge bills. Doing a fry up for example, should not be done on the top with the hobs, but done by different techniques by putting the pans into the oven instead. Also, some "fried" food such as fried eggs can be done by putting a baking sheet onto the hob, and then putting the egg(s) on to that, and closing the lid down for a few minutes until they are cooked. Leaving the covers on AGAs in the up position drains heat - and gas or electricity - very rapidly. In some houses AGAs are still effective, as they can provide space heating and be used for drying clothes. Still not cheap, but they are a lot more economical if used to greatest effect.

Would not the heat of the surface of the induction plate come by conduction from the hot vessel in which the cooking was taking place, rather than directly from the induction plate itself?

[french frank]

Would not the heat of the surface of the induction plate come by conduction from the hot vessel in which the cooking was taking place, rather than directly from the induction plate itself?

As I understand, that makes it 'warm' rather than hot.

[Dave2002]

And then they were talking about gas shortages so I bought a portable 2-plate electric hob . It's a complicated world we live in, trying to keep up, especially, with environmental best practice.

This article about electricity supply is maybe of interest - though as usual one has to warn about Wikipedia as a definitive source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...United_Kingdom It's probably pretty accurate though. Although wind power generation now seems to be considered cheaper than other forms of electricity generation, worldwide hydro electric generation accounts for around a sixth of total capacity. I don't know how much electricity is generated by hydro in the UK, though power stations such as the one at Cruachan which is also a storage system, can deliver 440 Mw on demand, which seems to be the role for some of the stand by gas generators. I think Cruachan has a net efficiency of around 70% - unlike a pure hydro system, as it relies on using cheap electricity generator excess to pump water back up to the reservoir near the top of the mountain. Conventional hydro systems rely on rain to fill the reservoirs, so could be considered to have higher efficiency.

https://www.visitcruachan.co.uk/

Hydro dams presumably have a high capital cost, and require large scale engineering with possibly a large up front investment, and a long pay back time, but amortized over many years they might still be relatively cheap. I don't know.

[Dave2002]

As I understand, that makes it 'warm' rather than hot.

Maybe, but I do recall being hurt by trying to clean a "warm" induction hot with a wet cloth shortly after turning one off!

Yes - the residual heat will have been transferred back from the metal pans to the surface below.

[oddoneout]

A certain amount is up to the owner, rather than the installer. Open the airwash vent more if the glass is getting black - close it if once the heat has burnt it off. I'm pretty sure this is the secondary vent, not the main vent which the installer adjusts (at least in smoke control areas) to prevent that vent being closed right down at any time. Blackened glass is surely a sign of imperfect combustion, smoke and pollutants?

I have a clean burn system on my wood burner. The manual says that secondary air drawn through long inlet ducts and preheated forms an air curtain down the glass preventing most of the tar from condensing on the glass. The air in the chamber rolls over and mixes and reburns deposits. It's interesting to watch the process - on first lighting there is a small amount of smoke then after a couple of minutes it all suddenly clears and you can see the rolling motion as the flames move towards the front rather than going straight up. With such systems it is I think very important to have and follow the maker's instructions as there can be differences from one brand to another. My son has a Stovax and leaving the door slightly ajar during the lighting process is needed but mine(a small Woodwarm) has to have the door closed at all times; I inadvertently proved why it matters for my stove when I didn't shut the door properly and the smoke came out into the room... Two vents are open for lighting but once up to temperature the one directly under the grate is closed. There is a certain amount of trial and error, but I must be doing something right as the window stays clean; perhaps every couple of months or so I wipe it down when I do the thorough clean (vacuum to get all the ash off the door lining and where it's missed the ash pan under the grate) , but there's only a very slight brown haze towards the bottom of the door glass to come off.
More info here https://blog.gr8fires.co.uk/2015/05/...-it-happening/