Do vegans object to HIPP?

[doversoul1]

You know, the old vegetarian/vegan-bashing jokes are always the best. I'm neither, but I do admire their attempts to create a better environment, both for animals and for the human race.

We have abused animals terribly especially in the last few decades but humans have always depended on animals in all sorts of ways. Without using animals either alive or dead, the civilisation we know today wouldn’t have existed (some people would say that would have been preferable). I find it quite arrogant to assume, let alone insist that humans are capable of living without depending on animals. Beside, in northern countries including Britain, growing season is far too short to grow enough plant food naturally. Anyone can choose to become vegan but I think it is the mater of lifestyle rather than that of a principle. A world without sheep, cows, chickens or even cats would be a very sad place to me. And no early music ensembles either.

[Bryn]

We have abused animals terribly especially in the last few decades but humans have always depended on animals in all sorts of ways. Without using animals either alive or dead, the civilisation we know today wouldn’t have existed (some people would say that would have been preferable). I find it quite arrogant to assume, let alone insist that humans are capable of living without depending on animals. Beside, in northern countries including Britain, growing season is far too short to grow enough plant food naturally. Anyone can choose to become vegan but I think it is the mater of lifestyle rather than that of a principle. A world without sheep, cows, chickens or even cats would be a very sad place to me. And no early music ensembles either.

The Vegan Society's own definition.

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

It appears that veganism dates all the way back to 1944. The "possible and practicable" lets vegans off the hook regarding insect pollination, even by mass-farmed and transported bees.

[Serial_Apologist]

We have abused animals terribly especially in the last few decades but humans have always depended on animals in all sorts of ways. Without using animals either alive or dead, the civilisation we know today wouldn’t have existed (some people would say that would have been preferable).

Ghandi famously suggested it would be a good idea!

I find it quite arrogant to assume, let alone insist that humans are capable of living without depending on animals. Beside, in northern countries including Britain, growing season is far too short to grow enough plant food naturally. Anyone can choose to become vegan but I think it is the matter of lifestyle rather than that of a principle. A world without sheep, cows, chickens or even cats would be a very sad place to me. And no early music ensembles either.

Surely our short growth season could be lengthened using sustainable forcing methods, eg solar panels? It might involve considerable extension of areas under glass or polytunnels, though, which would obviously interrupt the carbon cycle as well as look unsightly.

[doversoul1]

Bryn

The "possible and practicable" lets vegans off the hook regarding insect pollination, even by mass-farmed and transported bees.

Very convenient.

Surely our short growth season could be lengthened using sustainable forcing methods, eg solar panels? It might involve considerable extension of areas under glass or polytunnels, though, which would obviously interrupt the carbon cycle as well as look unsightly.

Thanet Earth

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=thanet+earth&tbm=isch&source=hp&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit7LHfi8njAhVFoVwKHQOOC20QsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1280&bih=921

Without resorting to highly artificial methods, it’s the protein source that will be particularly difficult to grow in a place like Britain where there is no long, warm autumn to ripen and dry the crops naturally. Broad beans are easy to dry but unlike soy beans in Japan, they have never been made much use in this country.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ghandi famously suggested it would be a good idea!

Surely our short growth season could be lengthened using sustainable forcing methods, eg solar panels? It might involve considerable extension of areas under glass or polytunnels, though, which would obviously interrupt the carbon cycle as well as look unsightly.

Ghandi wasn't right about everything. The growing season is actually LONGER in temperate regions, as crops grow more slowly in cooler temperatures.

With beef farming requiring 10x the acreage as compared with plant-based proteins, can we afford to be sentimental about seeing pretty cows and sheep in the fields? Perhaps animal protein should be reared only where arable farming isn't possible.

[doversoul1]

Ghandi wasn't right about everything. The growing season is actually LONGER in temperate regions, as crops grow more slowly in cooler temperatures.

With beef farming requiring 10x the acreage as compared with plant-based proteins, can we afford to be sentimental about seeing pretty cows and sheep in the fields? Perhaps animal protein should be reared only where arable farming isn't possible.

Plants taking a long time to grow is not the same thing as long growing season in which many different vegetables can be grown and harvested from early spring to late autumn.

Would you want to see fields and fields of hybrid soy beans, maize or quinoa as such being cultivated under highly managed schemes where there is no room for wild life? Yes, the way in which meat is produced and consumed now needs to be changed but to go animal-less is, to me, against our natural conditions.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The "possible and practicable" lets vegans off the hook regarding insect pollination, even by mass-farmed and transported bees.

Well, some of them, no doubt - but I know a few who only buy honey from the beekeeper.

Alpie is right - radical changes in attitudes to food and food production are needed in the interests of sustainability (and these need to be made available & affordable to all income groups). But relying on "artificial" [ie "chemical"] replacements for Musical instruments (as suggested in the video in #4) doesn't show much awareness of the greater problems this would create for the planet.

[doversoul1]

Well, some of them, no doubt - but I know a few who only buy honey from the beekeeper.

Bee keepers rob honey from bees and replace it with syrup made of refined sugar and tap water (there may be more ‘ethical’ syrups but it is substitute all the same).

[ed.] in exchange bee keepers do make sure that their hives will survive the winter and thrive in spring.

[ahinton]

Ghandi wasn't right about everything. The growing season is actually LONGER in temperate regions, as crops grow more slowly in cooler temperatures.

With beef farming requiring 10x the acreage as compared with plant-based proteins, can we afford to be sentimental about seeing pretty cows and sheep in the fields? Perhaps animal protein should be reared only where arable farming isn't possible.

When the world's population rises through10bn, 25bn and beyond, the amonts of land and water required to produce all kind of food for human consumption will be at a premium. Can't wait for the results of successful genetic experimentation and other means of disease control and eradication to enable this and more...

[teamsaint]

When the world's population rises through10bn, 25bn and beyond, the amonts of land and water required to produce all kind of food for human consumption will be at a premium. Can't wait for the results of successful genetic experimentation and other means of disease control and eradication to enable this and more...

World population looks likely to peak between 10 and 11 bn.

[doversoul1]

Anyone fancy animal friendly musical instruments?

https://www.peta.org/living/entertainment/animal-friendly-instruments/

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Anyone fancy animal friendly musical instruments?
https://www.peta.org/living/entertai...y-instruments/

I can do better than that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwOXFOTagSE

[Bryn]

I can do better than that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwOXFOTagSE

Or somewhat less animal friendly:

[doversoul1]

I can do better than that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwOXFOTagSE

I am very impressed. No pretence about anything but just the interest in making (unspecified ) music. I hope the vegetables are not wasted (can they make soup all the time?).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... I hope the vegetables are not wasted (can they make soup all the time?).

That occurred to me, too - especially with all that shredded cabbage & cauliflower. (I hate to see food going to waste - as opposed to "going to waist", which I'm quite proficient at!)