Reintroducing wild animals

[ahinton]

Indeed they do. Crows tend to go for lambs too. Poor things.

They do indeed - and not only that, I've seen them gang up and dive-bomb kites and even sparrowhawks, just as I've witnessed magpies, who usually tend to operate alone, ganging up and having a go at whatever they can.

[Richard Tarleton]

Indeed they do. Crows tend to go for lambs too. Poor things.

Indeed they do. But just to keep everything in proportion, the bulk of lambing takes place indoors these days - especially in the lowlands. It's just in the more marginal, or upland, sheep farming operations where lambing still takes place au naturel.....these tending to be the most uneconomic, heavily subsidised sort, where frankly losing sheep from the landscape altogether would bring ecological benefits.....

[LezLee]

Indeed they do. But just to keep everything in proportion, the bulk of lambing takes place indoors these days - especially in the lowlands. It's just in the more marginal, or upland, sheep farming operations where lambing still takes place au naturel.....these tending to be the most uneconomic, heavily subsidised sort, where frankly losing sheep from the landscape altogether would bring ecological benefits.....

In Northern Scotland you often see dead crows hanging on fences. Farmers (unbelievably) seem to imagine they serve as a lesson to other crows not to attack lambs!

[Bryn]

Indeed they do. But just to keep everything in proportion, the bulk of lambing takes place indoors these days - especially in the lowlands. It's just in the more marginal, or upland, sheep farming operations where lambing still takes place au naturel.....these tending to be the most uneconomic, heavily subsidised sort, where frankly losing sheep from the landscape altogether would bring ecological benefits.....

Absolutely. Much upland sheep-grazed areas would quickly succeed to much-needed woodland if those sheep were removed. That said, commercial forestry tends to involve sheep in its early stages to keep competitive plants from holding back the growth of young, tube sheathed, conifer saplings. Indeed, a Scratch Orchestra colleague used to supplement his small farm's income by working as a contract shepherd for first the Economic Forestry Group, and then the Forestry Commision, in south Wales.

[Bryn]

In Northern Scotland you often see dead crows hanging on fences. Farmers (unbelievably) seem to imagine they serve as a lesson to other crows not to attack lambs!

I suppose such provision of carrion might marginally mitigate the farmers' livestock losses.

[oddoneout]

Absolutely. Much upland sheep-grazed areas would quickly succeed to much-needed woodland if those sheep were removed. That said, commercial forestry tends to involve sheep in its early stages to keep competitive plants from holding back the growth of young, tube sheathed, conifer saplings. Indeed, a Scratch Orchestra colleague used to supplement his small farm's income by working as a contract shepherd for first the Economic Forestry Group, and then the Forestry Commision, in south Wales.

You'd need to keep the deer out as well(or significantly and actively manage the population) - and that's expensive. Not sure how it compares in the bigger picture with the subsidies to sheep farmers, but they would be different budgets anyway so it wouldn't be a case of swapping one for the other. Controlling/managing the deer population could of course provide an alternative, but sadly not equivalent(those who eat the sheep wouldn't for the most part I suspect eat venison instead) source of meat.

[gradus]

I suppose such provision of carrion might marginally mitigate the farmers' livestock losses.

Pour encourager les autres was the principal behind gamekeepers gallows upon which dead magpies and other offenders used to be displayed.

[Bryn]

You'd need to keep the deer out as well(or significantly and actively manage the population) - and that's expensive. Not sure how it compares in the bigger picture with the subsidies to sheep farmers, but they would be different budgets anyway so it wouldn't be a case of swapping one for the other. Controlling/managing the deer population could of course provide an alternative, but sadly not equivalent(those who eat the sheep wouldn't for the most part I suspect eat venison instead) source of meat.

For my own part, I'd rather eat venison, preferably culled from wild, than lamb.

[Richard Tarleton]

You'd need to keep the deer out as well(or significantly and actively manage the population) - and that's expensive. Not sure how it compares in the bigger picture with the subsidies to sheep farmers, but they would be different budgets anyway so it wouldn't be a case of swapping one for the other. Controlling/managing the deer population could of course provide an alternative, but sadly not equivalent(those who eat the sheep wouldn't for the most part I suspect eat venison instead) source of meat.

That's why we need wolves

It's a pity commercial deerstalking is based around old males with big antlers: it's the hinds who need wholesale culling. A lot of culling does take place, but obviously not nearly enough.

For my own part, I'd rather eat venison, preferably culled from wild, than lamb.

Quite.

Actually, who eats lamb? There's been a steep decline in UK lamb consumption: people only grow it because they're paid subsidies to do so. Does much of it go for export? We don't need all these sheep.

[oddoneout]

[QUOTE]Actually, who eats lamb? There's been a steep decline in UK lamb consumption: people only grow it because they're paid subsidies to do so. Does much of it go for export? We don't need all these sheep./QUOTE]
This answers that?

https://www.farminguk.com/news/british-lamb-exports-booming-according-to-government-figures_48928.html

I think the demographic of lamb consumers has changed in the UK? I suspect that the 'typical' UK member of the public only eats lamb in ethnic cuisines for the most part. The traditional lamb roasts are not that popular any more - expensive, and lamb is a fatty meat - and shepherds pie is likely to be made with beef and become cottage pie. I still buy lamb mince(lucky to have a proper butcher using locally raised animals) but I've never been that keen on the whole cuts, not least because of the expense.

[LezLee]

Although not vegetarian, I no longer eat meat but lamb is the only one I long for, specially mince for pasta dishes. Best end of neck for a lovely old-fashioned pan of scouse too! Not at all interested in any other meat, though my husband and I had meat 4 or 5 days a week. I miss the by-products too - roasties and gravy.