Reintroducing wild animals

[Dave2002]

Great photo - would be interested to know how you took that. What camera, lens? Was timing it hard?

Apparently red kites have a clever trick which buzzards don't have. They can pick up two small mammals or pieces of carrion - first pass grab with talons, then transfer capture to beak, then pick up another one with a second pass. Buzzards can only pick up one at a time.

Maybe there are physical reasons why buzzards can't do this, or maybe they just haven't learnt to do this yet.

Seems also that red kites mostly eat carrion (shouldn't that be carryoff?), rather than capture live creatures - though I'm not absolutely certain.

Also, and I'm not sure about this - perhaps red kites deter buzzards from picking up food if both spot the same food at the same time. In places where these birds are fed deliberately (as part of the reintroduction programs), the buzzards seem to come in later than the red kites - i.e. defer to the red kites.

[Richard Tarleton]

A Bridge camera - my new Lumix (Panasonic) FZ330 with 25-600 built-in zoom - glorified point'n'shoot, basically, I'm not a skilled photographer. It's all about fieldcraft. I went into the field (dodging the 3 contractors' tractors, forage harvesters and trailers, which stop for nobody), worked out what the kite was doing and fired away. It kept rotating between two adjacent fields, so I had to keep dodging through the opening in the hedge, and managed to anticipate it. I got another of it carrying something approximately mole-sized.

I didn't know that about their hunting behaviour. But yes carrion if they can get it red and black kites both. Buzzards I think have stumpier talons, quite happy to stand in a field and eat earthworms....

[doversoul1]

Rewilding is an attractive ecological concept urgently in need of an agreed definition
[…]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/19/the-risk-to-woodland-of-putting-wolves-and-bears-back-together

[Bryn]

Rewilding is an attractive ecological concept urgently in need of an agreed definition
[…]
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-back-together

I really need to get out an 'unrewild' my back garden. The birds, foxes, bees of various varieties, and the neighbourhood domestic cats, love it, but it's become just too much of a mess. with the brambles and ragwort taking over. I just wish the amphibians and reptiles would return. Common frogs, toads, palmate newts and grass snakes used to fairly frequent visitors or residents. No longer, sadly.

[Anastasius]

As long as they will leave grey squirrels alone.

You are joking, I hope. Grey squirrels are vermin.

I do recall reading about the introduction of some fish into a large lake or reservoir for angling purposes IIRC but that it all went pear-shaped as it totally altered the ecology. The initial event A then caused a detrimental event B which then caused another detrimental event C and so on. Man interferes too much IMO.

[Anastasius]

.... the pigeon population continues to rise faster and their behaviour is changing to exploit wider sources of food - interesting but not helpful for food growers. ....

And, talking of the fluffy-bunny brigade, because of that meddlesome virtue-signalling Mr Packham, they are only going to get more plentiful and farmers increasingly watch in desperation as they see the eyes being pecked out of their lambs by pigeons. Perhaps we should encourage a Packham cull.

We are starting to get more deer coming into our land and I look forward to filling up the freezer with venison.

[BBMmk2]

Reintroducing wolves to Scotland I ask you!!!!

[Dave2002]

You are joking, I hope. Grey squirrels are vermin.

I do recall reading about the introduction of some fish into a large lake or reservoir for angling purposes IIRC but that it all went pear-shaped as it totally altered the ecology. The initial event A then caused a detrimental event B which then caused another detrimental event C and so on. Man interferes too much IMO.

Surely humans interfere simply by setting up their own purely selfish systems, which over a longer period may cause unexpected and arguably unwanted problems. You mention that squirrels are vermin, but perhaps on a larger scale it is we, humans, who are the "vermin" which need to be culled.

I am not seriously suggesting this, but our farming and other practices do change "nature" very considerably - we are are as much part of the problem as many of the other animals and plants.

We quite unashamedly adapt living creatures over time for our own purposes. Examples include selective breeding of cattle, which can lead to much increased milk production or better tasting beef. Those adaptations would probably not happen without our interference. Similarly we modify plants, again for increased yield, but we also clear vast tracts of land, thus destroying or at least significantly modify the habitats of flora and fauna which previously occupied those areas.

You mention detrimental effects, but detrimental to whom? Us or other animals, or both?

Surely some form of balance would be desirable.

[Richard Tarleton]

You are joking, I hope. Grey squirrels are vermin.

I do recall reading about the introduction of some fish into a large lake or reservoir for angling purposes IIRC but that it all went pear-shaped as it totally altered the ecology. The initial event A then caused a detrimental event B which then caused another detrimental event C and so on. Man interferes too much IMO.

The trouble with the word vermin is that it means different things to different people - it has no objective meaning . It simply means "a species the user doesn't like", for whatever reason. Gamekeepers regard birds of prey, stoats and weasels as vermin. But yes, the problems are caused by man, either by altering the natural balance between species or by introducing species - deliberately or accidentally - where they don't belong. You don't like Chris Packham, I agree with a great deal of what he says.

Reintroducing wolves to Scotland I ask you!!!!

With the idea, BBM, of restoring the ancient Caledonian forest in the Scottish Highlands, as wolves reduce the deer population. An idea well worth exploring. Of course the sheep would have to go as well, but that shouldn't be a problem - they were only introduced to the Highlands 200 years ago, by rapacious landlords, and are entirely unnecessary. I don't think anyone is advocating restoring them to the Central Belt, or the Borders.

Surely humans interfere simply by setting up their own purely selfish systems, which over a longer period may cause unexpected and arguably unwanted problems. You mention that squirrels are vermin, but perhaps on a larger scale it is we, humans, who are the "vermin" which need to be culled.

I am not seriously suggesting this, but our farming and other practices do change "nature" very considerably - we are are as much part of the problem as many of the other animals and plants.

We quite unashamedly adapt living creatures over time for our own purposes. Examples include selective breeding of cattle, which can lead to much increased milk production or better tasting beef. Those adaptations would probably not happen without our interference. Similarly we modify plants, again for increased yield, but we also clear vast tracts of land, thus destroying or at least significantly modify the habitats of flora and fauna which previously occupied those areas.

You mention detrimental effects, but detrimental to whom? Us or other animals, or both?

Surely some form of balance would be desirable.

Quite!

[Serial_Apologist]

farmers increasingly watch in desperation as they see the eyes being pecked out of their lambs by pigeons.

By pigeons?? I've heard of magpies doing this, but not pigeons.

[BBMmk2]

The trouble with the word vermin is that it means different things to different people - it has no objective meaning . It simply means "a species the user doesn't like", for whatever reason. Gamekeepers regard birds of prey, stoats and weasels as vermin. But yes, the problems are caused by man, either by altering the natural balance between species or by introducing species - deliberately or accidentally - where they don't belong. You don't like Chris Packham, I agree with a great deal of what he says.



With the idea, BBM, of restoring the ancient Caledonian forest in the Scottish Highlands, as wolves reduce the deer population. An idea well worth exploring. Of course the sheep would have to go as well, but that shouldn't be a problem - they were only introduced to the Highlands 200 years ago, by rapacious landlords, and are entirely unnecessary. I don't think anyone is advocating restoring them to the Central Belt, or the Borders.



Quite!

Well wolves have been known to travel vast distances and I think in a comparatively short space of time, it wouldn’t be long before the wolves would get to the lowlands and the borders and into England.

[Richard Tarleton]

Well wolves have been known to travel vast distances and I think in a comparatively short space of time, it wouldn’t be long before the wolves would get to the lowlands and the borders and into England.

Well, yes, but if there is plentiful prey in the form of deer in the Highlands why would they? Several European countries have wolves, and for the most part the wolves stay in the wilds - and animals like that have territories, and home ranges.

I forbore to comment on the carnivorous pigeons - round here crows, ravens and larger gulls do that.

[jayne lee wilson]

Surely humans interfere simply by setting up their own purely selfish systems, which over a longer period may cause unexpected and arguably unwanted problems. You mention that squirrels are vermin, but perhaps on a larger scale it is we, humans, who are the "vermin" which need to be culled.

I am not seriously suggesting this, but our farming and other practices do change "nature" very considerably - we are are as much part of the problem as many of the other animals and plants.

We quite unashamedly adapt living creatures over time for our own purposes. Examples include selective breeding of cattle, which can lead to much increased milk production or better tasting beef. Those adaptations would probably not happen without our interference. Similarly we modify plants, again for increased yield, but we also clear vast tracts of land, thus destroying or at least significantly modify the habitats of flora and fauna which previously occupied those areas.

You mention detrimental effects, but detrimental to whom? Us or other animals, or both?

Surely some form of balance would be desirable.

Wonderful post Dave, thanks.

It's heartening to see the crop fields beyond my avenue here have a generous border of hedgerow, big shrubs, ragwort, thistles, tall eared grasses, Evening Primrose and other Wildflowers... an excellent habitat for Bees, birds, other insects and hopefully more Butterflies if the "2nd wave" appears in later Summer...farmer here seems env-aware...
And lovely for my evening walk...(Proms permitting...)

[Serial_Apologist]

Wonderful post Dave, thanks.

It's heartening to see the crop fields beyond my avenue here have a generous border of hedgerow, big shrubs, ragwort, thistles, tall eared grasses, Evening Primrose and other Wildflowers... an excellent habitat for Bees, birds, other insects and hopefully more Butterflies if the "2nd wave" appears in later Summer...farmer here seems env-aware...
And lovely for my evening walk...(Proms permitting...)

My own admittedly rather obvious thinking is that, were the world economic model to be rejigged so as to distribute and safeguard earnings equitably, rather than, as at present, print money largely for purposes of speculation (read, gamble on the world's stock and currency markets) and wastage on the short term, given that large families are often the only solution to endemic disease, and poverty in old age, those in the poorest lands would be more encouraged to practise birth control.

[BBMmk2]

Well, yes, but if there is plentiful prey in the form of deer in the Highlands why would they? Several European countries have wolves, and for the most part the wolves stay in the wilds - and animals like that have territories, and home ranges.

I forbore to comment on the carnivorous pigeons - round here crows, ravens and larger gulls do that.

Indeed they do. Crows tend to go for lambs too. Poor things.