New CBSO School approved by Government

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So what is your solution to the total disaster that has been inflicted on music education ?

Well? For starters, do the same thing in a local authority school that hasn’t been stolen from the local public and handed over free of charge to a certain politician’s mates.

[MrGongGong]

Well? For starters, do the same thing in a local authority school that hasn’t been stolen from the local public and handed over free of charge to a certain politician’s mates.

Is that a cryptic crossword clue ?

[Stephen Maddock]

Well? For starters, do the same thing in a local authority school that hasn’t been stolen from the local public and handed over free of charge to a certain politician’s mates.

For clarity: this is a brand new school, approved by government in part because Sandwell is in desperate need of additional school places.

And the initiative has the full support of the Council, at both officer and political levels - indeed it was they who introduced the CBSO (which I run) to Shireland in the first place.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

For clarity: this is a brand new school, approved by government in part because Sandwell is in desperate need of additional school places.

And the initiative has the full support of the Council, at both officer and political levels - indeed it was they who introduced the CBSO (which I run) to Shireland in the first place.

I’m not knocking the idea at all - just the fact that all the government cares about is academies. When G*** was Education Secretary, he never set foot in a LEA school.

And all new schools approved by the government are sure to be freecademies.

[ardcarp]

Having just focused on this thread and having scanned through it, I can't understand why anyone should think the CBSO supporting a school is anything other than a FANTASTIC IDEA. OK, I know there's a lot of political opinion about so-called academies, but putting any sort of prejudice aside, the CBSO is raising 'outreach' to a new (and unheard of?) level which must be a Good Thing. I don't see that 'elitism' comes into it. Every child, in my opinion, should have the chance to experience proper music. (Discuss 'proper' if you like.) Some kids are born with an aptitude for music...don't tell me otherwise....but many go undiscovered, and a project like this will surely give opportunity for all to experience the best and for some to tap in to their special and maybe latent abilities.

[MrGongGong]

Having just focused on this thread and having scanned through it, I can't understand why anyone should think the CBSO supporting a school is anything other than a FANTASTIC IDEA. OK, I know there's a lot of political opinion about so-called academies, but putting any sort of prejudice aside, the CBSO is raising 'outreach' to a new (and unheard of?) level which must be a Good Thing. I don't see that 'elitism' comes into it. Every child, in my opinion, should have the chance to experience proper music. (Discuss 'proper' if you like.) Some kids are born with an aptitude for music...don't tell me otherwise....but many go undiscovered, and a project like this will surely give opportunity for all to experience the best and for some to tap in to their special and maybe latent abilities.

I certainly hope that this school gives youngsters plenty of opportunity to encounter "improper" musics

https://musicaustralia.org.au/2015/04/remarkable-story-of-an-orchestra-in-a-school-in-a-housing-estate/

and so on ....

[french frank]

Having just focused on this thread and having scanned through it, I can't understand why anyone should think the CBSO supporting a school is anything other than a FANTASTIC IDEA. OK, I know there's a lot of political opinion about so-called academies, but putting any sort of prejudice aside, the CBSO is raising 'outreach' to a new (and unheard of?) level which must be a Good Thing. I don't see that 'elitism' comes into it. Every child, in my opinion, should have the chance to experience proper music. (Discuss 'proper' if you like.) Some kids are born with an aptitude for music...don't tell me otherwise....but many go undiscovered, and a project like this will surely give opportunity for all to experience the best and for some to tap in to their special and maybe latent abilities.

I agree with ardcarp (and, unusually, with MrGongGong - I think - on this occasion: I reserve judgement on other matters ). It really isn't about the wrongness of academies in education policy. If the principle is to introduce a lot of genuinely underprivileged kids (as the location in Sandwell seems to dictate), to first rate music tuition, and who otherwise would be deprived of such opportunities, who is not just going to wish the project every success and let them get on with it?

[doversoul1]

I'm not sure that parents really think that the CBSO is a "big name" at all.
Sure, for those of us who think that music is important maybe but for the rest of the world ? nope

So what is your solution to the total disaster that has been inflicted on music education ?
At least the CBSO are actually DOING something

This IS about music education

One of the reasons we have schools is to make it possible for children to escape from the influence of their parents

I have always suspected that you live in a rainbow coloured bubble. Parents who believe their children are musically talented are not a rare species in the wider world and to those parents CBSO is a big name and a school associated with it is not an opportunity to be missed. On the other hand, the parents who live in the catchment are more likely to avoid such a school (playing classical music and singing a choir etc.) as ‘not for us’. They may not interfere what music you teach at school but they can choose school for their children. Another issue is, if you open a brand new, shining school like this in the middle of a deprived area, it will attract the already scare resource as it will bound to attract ‘good’ teachers available in the area. I don’t blame the teachers but the ‘rest’ of the schools will have to resort to a scheme like ‘Train to Teach’* that sends unqualified, untrained people into schools to teach (with a full salary as an attraction).
* this is not to be confused with Teach Direct.

If it has such resource, it could expand/extend its work with schools and as an addition, open a post-16 music college for those who want to continue their musical education. The college can collaborate with the schools in the area in many ways without undermining the local community.

Stephen Maddock
The council (or government) is unlikely or maybe more precisely can’t afford to turn down a proposal for opening a new school in the area but this looks to me like opening a branch of Sainsbury’s, if not Waitrose rather than assisting a local businesses to open new shops. But again, things can have unexpected results. I do hope it will be a success.

[doversoul1]

I agree with ardcarp (and, unusually, with MrGongGong - I think - on this occasion: I reserve judgement on other matters ). It really isn't about the wrongness of academies in education policy. If the principle is to introduce a lot of genuinely underprivileged kids (as the location in Sandwell seems to dictate), to first rate music tuition, and who otherwise would be deprived of such opportunities, who is not just going to wish the project every success and let them get on with it?

The point I am trying to make is that opening a new school with an association with a famous orchestra may not be quite the right way to go about.

[french frank]

The point I am trying to make is that opening a new school with an association with a famous orchestra may not be quite the right way to go about.

It's certainly not the usual way. But Birmingham itself has already provided (all of) us with the CBSO - and Symphony Hall, achievements which many big cities have been a million miles away from achieving (mentioning no names closer to home ). The whole point is that this focuses on music tuition rather than 'education' in the widest, general sense. If the alternative is funding other new schools which, like the current ones, have poor Music provision, that is simply solving a different problem.

"Every child will be given the opportunity to learn a musical instrument, with tuition delivered in partnership with Sandwell Music Service, and to participate in choirs and ensembles as well as regularly attending CBSO concerts at Symphony Hall. The orchestra will also offer pre-concert presentations, ensemble performances, play-along sessions and creative workshops linked to curriculum themes. For aspiring young conductors there will be conducting workshops and masterclasses. There will be visits from international soloists and conductors performing with the CBSO who will provide inspirational talks, workshops, masterclasses. Students will also have the chance to learn about the administrative side of running an orchestra, with careers advice and presentations from CBSO staff."

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't think that we should share our private suspicions about what we imagine other Forumistas' life-styles/thinking might be like. We'd be here all day.

[doversoul1]

It's certainly not the usual way. But Birmingham itself has already provided (all of) us with the CBSO - and Symphony Hall, achievements which many big cities have been a million miles away from achieving (mentioning no names closer to home ). The whole point is that this focuses on music tuition rather than 'education' in the widest, general sense. If the alternative is funding other new schools which, like the current ones, have poor Music provision, that is simply solving a different problem.

"Every child will be given the opportunity to learn a musical instrument, with tuition delivered in partnership with Sandwell Music Service, and to participate in choirs and ensembles as well as regularly attending CBSO concerts at Symphony Hall. The orchestra will also offer pre-concert presentations, ensemble performances, play-along sessions and creative workshops linked to curriculum themes. For aspiring young conductors there will be conducting workshops and masterclasses. There will be visits from international soloists and conductors performing with the CBSO who will provide inspirational talks, workshops, masterclasses. Students will also have the chance to learn about the administrative side of running an orchestra, with careers advice and presentations from CBSO staff."

Two last points.
Whom do you think the quote most appeal to?

Running an orchestra and related matters is not quite the same thing as running/governing/managing a school. LEAs weren’t there for no reasons but then they couldn’t manage, or so we were told.

As I think I’ve said all I can say about the matter I am pulling out from this discussion. I sincerely hope I have made a complete fool of myself and the school will be a great success.

[french frank]

Two last points.
Whom do you think the quote most appeal to?

Running an orchestra and related matters is not quite the same thing with running/governing/managing a school. LEAs weren’t there for no reasons but then they couldn’t manage, or so we were told.

As I think I’ve said all I can say about the matter I am pulling out from this discussion. I sincerely hope I have made a complete fool of myself and the school will be a great success.

I'll leave it there too, except to reply to your question:

I don't think the quote was designed to 'appeal' to anyone: it's a statement of intent. I doubt many parents in Sandwell are likely to see it, for example.

As I understood it, the Academy Trust will be 'running the school' and providing the general education which will be the main educational foundation. The orchestra is merely there to provide an integrated 'back-up' service which will provide unique opportunities. Again, I stress, one can still hold to the view that, in general, 'academies' are bad national educational policy without denying any one school its beneficial achievements. I think it would be unrealistic to imagine that every single academy would be much better if turned back into an LEA school.

[MrGongGong]

The point I am trying to make is that opening a new school with an association with a famous orchestra may not be quite the right way to go about.

Yeah yeah we heard you
So what are YOU going to do about the way that music is being systematically removed from education ?
I know what I'm doing
But sitting on your sofa sniping helps no one

and I don't live in any "bubble"

BUT do spend much of my time in the world that this school is going to be situated in

Opening a post 16 college will exclude those pupils who don't already do music

The CBSO isn't planning to "run" a school

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yeah yeah we heard you
So what are YOU going to do about the way that music is being systematically removed from education ?
I know what I'm doing
But sitting on your sofa sniping helps no one

and I don't live in any "bubble"

BUT do spend much of my time in the world that this school is going to be situated in

Opening a post 16 college will exclude those pupils who don't already do music

The CBSO isn't planning to "run" a school

MrGG, I think you’re being a bit unreasonable. You are in a position to make a difference in that you are directly involved via your work. Doversoul isn’t directly involved, but it doesn’t mean she cannot express an opinion on the matter.

We are all on the same side here.