New CBSO School approved by Government

[doversoul1]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but I think such a highly specialised academy will almost by nature become selective in more than one sense. Professional orchestras can do far more valuable work by outreach programmes, especially in primary schools, that offer all children opportunities to experience high quality music.

[Stephen Maddock]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but I think such a highly specialised academy will almost by nature become selective in more than one sense. Professional orchestras can do far more valuable work by outreach programmes, especially in primary schools, that offer all children opportunities to experience high quality music.

The school can’t be selective, by law. It will work with a group of primary schools in Sandwell to ensure there are enough young people learning instruments (with Music Service support). But to reiterate: the pupils will all be drawn from Sandwell, one of the most deprived local authorities in the country.

And the CBSO will continue to do as much work in other schools as we can get funded. We are planning for this to be additional to, not a replacement for, our existing outreach work.

[MrGongGong]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but I think such a highly specialised academy will almost by nature become selective in more than one sense. Professional orchestras can do far more valuable work by outreach programmes, especially in primary schools, that offer all children opportunities to experience high quality music.

I don't think it's a case of one or the other
I spend much of my time leading projects and frequently come across youngsters who are passionate about music BUT go to schools where none happens and don't have parents who can afford to pay to send them to schools where there is music.
This isn't the solution for the crisis in music education BUT what else is to be done ?

One either believes that music is for EVERYONE or not.
How many people who go to concerts and listen to music support those politicians who are responsible?
How many of them are keen on the destruction of our pan-EU collaborations that enable many young people to participate in music with other folks across the EU?

[doversoul1]

The school can’t be selective, by law. It will work with a group of primary schools in Sandwell to ensure there are enough young people learning instruments (with Music Service support). But to reiterate: the pupils will all be drawn from Sandwell, one of the most deprived local authorities in the country.

And the CBSO will continue to do as much work in other schools as we can get funded. We are planning for this to be additional to, not a replacement for, our existing outreach work.

That is good to hear but you must be aware what many parents are prepared to do in order to send their children to the school of their choice.

And Mr GG
If other orchestras pick up the idea, I guess it can only be a good thing (although I don’t hold my breath for more than one reasons).

[french frank]

Remember: it’s not in Birmingham, it’s in Sandwell. The intake will not be elitist in any sense, all being well.

Well, first, I think it's an experiment (in the sense of not being able to predict whether the hoped-for results will be achieved: these, I assume, being that children who are from deprived areas will nevertheless be able to benefit from musical tuition, scarcely available in the schools they would otherwise attend) that's well worth the attempt - and one uses the methods available, even if these are academies.

But what I was thinking of as potentially 'elitist' (never forgetting the quotes!) is that not all children will be able to go to the academy and those who don't might see the ones who do as 'privileged' (which they will be) and associate that with learning music.

In order NOT to be 'selective', I wonder what criteria will operate to 'select' which children will benefit from the limited places?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well, of course, they'll be selective. If the number wanting to go to the academy, exceeds the number of places, I doubt whether they'll pull the names out of a hat. So will they select on musical ability? Or general ability? Or proximity to the school? On whom you know? Or recommendations from the primary schools (and I expect that they include academies too)?

[doversoul1]

Well, first, I think it's an experiment (in the sense of not being able to predict whether the hoped-for results will be achieved: these, I assume, being that children who are from deprived areas will nevertheless be able to benefit from musical tuition, scarcely available in the schools they would otherwise attend) that's well worth the attempt - and one uses the methods available, even if these are academies.

But what I was thinking of as potentially 'elitist' (never forgetting the quotes!) is that not all children will be able to go to the academy and those who don't might see the ones who do as 'privileged' (which they will be) and associate that with learning music.

In order NOT to be 'selective', I wonder what criteria will operate to 'select' which children will benefit from the limited places?

From the local secondary schools/academies websites

Over subscription Criteria

1. Children in Local Authority Care
2. Current Family Association
3. Health and Special Access Reasons
4. Nearness of children's homes to school

With such a famous name attached to, the school will bound to be oversubscribed. I wonder how the subject matter (music) will be integrated into the process?

[french frank]

Over subscription Criteria

1. Children in Local Authority Care
2. Current Family Association
3. Health and Special Access Reasons
4. Nearness of children's homes to school

2. won't apply, but looks as if 1. will fill most of the places in Sandwell

[doversoul1]

2. won't apply, but looks as if 1. will fill most of the places in Sandwell

This is from one of the local schools:

No places will be allocated on the basis of ability or aptitude. The Academy is a comprehensive school for young people of all abilities and backgrounds

http://www.dccacademy.org.uk/admissions.php

I assume this will not be the case for the school of the subject of this thread.

[MrGongGong]

This is from one of the local schools:

No places will be allocated on the basis of ability or aptitude. The Academy is a comprehensive school for young people of all abilities and backgrounds

http://www.dccacademy.org.uk/admissions.php

I assume this will not be the case for the school of the subject of this thread.

Why?

Why should a school that is in a particular location with a focus on music be only for those who have been previously selected to be "musical"?

If you think (as I know from wide experience) that the practice of music and musicking is something that is of benefit to everyone regardless of previous experience or perceived "ability" then it would follow that a school with a focus on music would be a positive thing.

I think some folks are confusing this with a fame academy OR school like the existing "specialist" music schools, from what I have read and heard that isn't what the CBSO are doing.

Music education has suffered from many things, one of which is to always see music as a "talent quest" (one of the strong criticisms of SOME of the Sistema inspired projects).

If they really do create a school (which seems to be the plan) that doesn't assume that some children are more "musical" than others when they apply then this could be a great model. In my experience, those children who are usually described as "musical" are often (NOT always) those who have had the advantages of a background that encourages music as a practical activity.

[doversoul1]

It would cater for students aged 7 to 19, from primary through to secondary and sixth form. In addition to the normal academic curriculum, the school would specialise in classical, instrumental and choral music. Every child would have the opportunity to learn at least one musical instrument, and students would also benefit from regular projects with CBSO musicians. The school’s most talented young instrumentalists and singers would have access to opportunities through the CBSO’s extensive talent development

https://cbso.co.uk/news/city-learning-trust-the-cbso-and-sandwell-council-announce-consultation-for-a-new-specialist-music-school

Are we to believe that a school like this will be left quietly to the children in the catchment area? You could almost say that the children in the area will have one fewer choice of school they can go to. It sounds all very great but I have a feeling that it may not be a wise thing for an organisation of its own target to become involved in school education which is not the same thing as music education in school. I sincerely hope I’ll be proved completely wrong (but by whose criteria?).

[MrGongGong]

But what I was thinking of as potentially 'elitist' (never forgetting the quotes!) is that not all children will be able to go to the academy and those who don't might see the ones who do as 'privileged' (which they will be) and associate that with learning music.

If you go to Finland and get up in the morning you can see children walking to school. Almost every one of them will be carrying a musical instrument.
In my experience children don't have many of the associations that adults have about learning music.
It is part of our job to prevent the nonsense about what musics are "appropriate" or for the "privileged" from taking root.

[french frank]

This is from one of the local schools:

No places will be allocated on the basis of ability or aptitude. The Academy is a comprehensive school for young people of all abilities and backgrounds

http://www.dccacademy.org.uk/admissions.php

I assume this will not be the case for the school of the subject of this thread.

My own comment was based on the fact that, looking up the number of children in care in the Sandwell local authority (admittedly of all ages so not referring only to a secondary intake), I saw that this had recently rocketed to about 800. So if, as you suggested in your earlier post #22 children in care would have priority, the number would nearly fill the (eventual) capacity of 870.

My major point, though, was not to say this was likely to be the reality, but to underscore Stephen Maddocks's point that Sandwell is a very deprived area where, by definition, there is unlikely to be an intake of 'young people of all abilities and backgrounds'. Sandwell and Dover may well have differing populations …

Gongers: this isn't Finland. If what you say is true, there is no division between haves and have nots in terms of music tuition. So no concept of 'privilege' or 'elitism' attached to it.

[doversoul1]

My own comment was based on the fact that, looking up the number of children in care in the Sandwell local authority (admittedly of all ages so not referring only to a secondary intake), I saw that this had recently rocketed to about 800. So if, as you suggested in your earlier post #22 children in care would have priority, the number would nearly fill the (eventual) capacity of 870.

My major point, though, was not to say this was likely to be the reality, but to underscore Stephen Maddocks's point that Sandwell is a very deprived area where, by definition, there is unlikely to be an intake of 'young people of all abilities and backgrounds'. Sandwell and Dover may well have differing populations …

Gongers: this isn't Finland. If what you say is true, there is no division between haves and have nots in terms of music tuition. So no concept of 'privilege' or 'elitism' attached to it.

Schools are, in theory, open to all the children unconditionally in the catchment area. How much the over subscription criteria can be applied to is anybody's guess.

Mr GG
This is not about the importance of music education in school. It is about the wisdom (or lack of I’d say) of opening a school with such a prestigious association in a deprived area as this. If there is one thing that is not transparent these days, it’s school admission process. Parents with ambitions for their children and the means, and maybe a useful connection or two would do anything to have the place for their children in such a school as this; buying a house or even two in the area a few years before the child reach the age is the first thing they’ll do. And they will make sure that they’ll have the information and put their children’s names down the minute the application is open. Or they may even know a way of doing this before the admission process officially opens.

I have never been quite convinced by the concept of academy. This seems to me an example of well meaning but rather unwise enterprise. Again, I hope I’ll proved to be wrong.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have never been quite convinced by the concept of academy. This seems to me an example of well meaning but rather unwise enterprise. Again, I hope I’ll proved to be wrong.

Academies are a political and divide-and-rule tactic, taking local control away, and replacing it with control by commercial interests rather than education and child welfare being the number 1 priority. Professional governance by local authorities being replaced by wealthy amateurs.