Politicians and Comedians

[french frank]

Beyond our own echo chamber on here, the British public ate stupid, sentimental and bovine

I can't help feeling you're getting a tinge OTT. I know several British people, personally, who don't post here but are quite intelligent and politically acute. To say nothing of having high moral standards.

[Conchis]

Might have been this? (my apologies to Norman Fowler, I misremembered):

"If higher unemployment is the price we have to pay in order to bring inflation down, then it is a price worth paying."

Norman Lamont

But there was another quote about the north which someone here referenced in their 'location'? Indicating that it was more or less beyond the radar of politicians in the south.

The Fowler quote is well-known but as a Midlands MP, I don’t think he’d have made it so geographically acute.

The Thatcherite economist Patrick Milford (who has recently been exhumed as a Brexit cheerleader - the only economist who supports it) once told a group of redundant Liverpool dockworkers that it was ‘a good thing for the economy’ that they were out of work.

[Conchis]

The Fowler quote is well-known but as a Midlands MP, I don’t think he’d have made it so geographically acute.

The Thatcherite economist Patrick Milford (who has recently been exhumed as a Brexit cheerleader - the only economist who supports it) once told a group of redundant Liverpool dockworkers that it was ‘a good thing for the economy’ that they were out of work.

Sorry - I was getting my Normans mixed up. I recall Lamont saying something like that around 1990/81, yes.

[Conchis]

Could who please stop doing what?

You referred to the blonde trousered ape by his familiar name - persuading people to do this is one of the biggest weapons in his armoury.

[Richard Barrett]

Looking at the whole business from another angle, though, the Tory party could be said to be in terminal decline. Membership numbers are falling (the only UK political party for which this is currently the case), their average age is rising because young people in general want nothing to do with them, they receive more in donations from the wills of dead members than from living ones, they've only been voted into power with a majority in parliament once in the last quarter century, their last two party leaders have been by any objective standards the most incompetent in living memory, and so on, not to mention their having brought on the entire Brexit mess for internal party reasons with no connection to what might or might not be "good for the country". The elevation of "Boris" is just another chapter in their slow-motion collapse. Of course it's foolish to make predictions, but I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later the traditional British two-party politics returns but with the Tories/Faragists and LibDems swapping places, and the former taking the eccentric fringe position that the Liberals used to have.

[ahinton]

You referred to the blonde trousered ape by his familiar name - persuading people to do this is one of the biggest weapons in his armoury.

Well, at least now I understand to what you were referring but as what do you believe I should instead have referred to him? His full name, as doubtless you know, is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and he is generally known as Boris, so I'm not sure what the problem is here; as it happens, my own MP is Alexander Jesse Norman (who has long known Mr Johnson) but, like him, he seems never to have been known as Alexander. Over to you for an explanation, then!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Johnson.

Boris Notgoodenuv.

The Cowardly Liar.

Conchis is right - the promotion of referring to him as "Boris", making him sound like a three-year-old's favourite cuddly toy, is a pernicious aspect of his self-publicity.

[Pulcinella]

Looking at the whole business from another angle, though, the Tory party could be said to be in terminal decline. Membership numbers are falling (the only UK political party for which this is currently the case), their average age is rising because young people in general want nothing to do with them, they receive more in donations from the wills of dead members than from living ones, they've only been voted into power with a majority in parliament once in the last quarter century, their last two party leaders have been by any objective standards the most incompetent in living memory, and so on, not to mention their having brought on the entire Brexit mess for internal party reasons with no connection to what might or might not be "good for the country". The elevation of "Boris" is just another chapter in their slow-motion collapse. Of course it's foolish to make predictions, but I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later the traditional British two-party politics returns but with the Tories/Faragists and LibDems swapping places, and the former taking the eccentric fringe position that the Liberals used to have.

I'm not sure that that is true, Richard, as I suspect that Labour Party membership is declining too.
My partner recently cancelled his membership, for starters!

[Cockney Sparrow]

Looking at the whole business from another angle, though, the Tory party could be said to be in terminal decline. .....
.....I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later the traditional British two-party politics returns but with the Tories/Faragists and LibDems swapping places, and the former taking the eccentric fringe position that the Liberals used to have.

I'll hang on to that thought, I'd dearly like that to be true. A week or so back, I saw John Serjeant interviewed on Newsnight and he suggested in a year or two, we might look back on this time and wonder what all the fuss about the crisis was about, we might not be able to remember which way we voted in the Euro elections. I find it quite comforting to sit in the garden with a cup of coffee and for a few moments imagine, and half believe these circumstances might come about.

At the moment, I can't see any informed prediction as to what will happen, whilst not wanting to dismiss your right to offer your own tentative suggestion. ( I also read speculation that the said Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson was the only person with the front, having been elected to PM, to turn round as October approached and tell the British people that its all too difficult, revoke article 50 and then start again as to how the UK will go forward in the 21st century. (Another comforting but wildly unlikely thought to hold onto....)).

[Cockney Sparrow]

I'm not sure that that is true, Richard, as I suspect that Labour Party membership is declining too.
My partner recently cancelled his membership, for starters!

I took out membership, never having formalised my support for an anti-Tory party, with the sole intention of voting for an electable leader, and not one of the far left of the party. I've increasingly thought its futile to continue, but I think I will persist until I've seen the result of the next leadership election, when it comes.

[Conchis]

Well, at least now I understand to what you were referring but as what do you believe I should instead have referred to him? His full name, as doubtless you know, is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and he is generally known as Boris, so I'm not sure what the problem is here; as it happens, my own MP is Alexander Jesse Norman (who has long known Mr Johnson) but, like him, he seems never to have been known as Alexander. Over to you for an explanation, then!

Just call him ‘Johnson’ - everyone will know whom you mean, and he will certainly not be confused with the 60s American President.

[Conchis]

Johnson.

Boris Notgoodenuv.

The Cowardly Liar.

Conchis is right - the promotion of referring to him as "Boris", making him sound like a three-year-old's favourite cuddly toy, is a pernicious aspect of his self-publicity.

It is, and it works insidiously. Rather like the HIGNIFY appearances on which he built his ‘legend’.

[Conchis]

We’re told that Labour Paty membership shot up in Corbyn’s early years - possibly because it was only a fiver and manyTories joined in order to vote for Corbyn. If it’s in decline, that’s probably only natural as Corbyn has made too many rash promises to his young supporters as well as offering them fudge on Brexit (what happened to his boast that he’d be in Downing Street by the end of 2017?).

Tory membership may well be at a historic low and it woudn’t surprise me if it is. The Party has done nothing at all to appeal to people who aren’t a) rich and b) old and its pronouncements on healthcare and TV licences only emphasise this fact. Rory Stewart would seem to be positioning himself to lead the Tories in some notional post-Brexit, post-austerity future but he may die before that happens.

[french frank]

I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later the traditional British two-party politics returns but with the Tories/Faragists and LibDems swapping places, and the former taking the eccentric fringe position that the Liberals used to have.

I'm not sure too about that. I think there will always be backing for a 'conservative' party, whereas 'liberals' (lower case for both) are broadly radicals. Quite where one would place the Brexit party (or UKIP) in terms of conservatism I don't know: right wing, yes, but they haven't set out their stalls as conservatives. When it comes to voting (which is what matters), the core of the Tory party faithful is, I suspect, among the members of the social 'Conservative & Unionist' clubs around the country and their like, not paid up members. It may be counterintuitive, but I suspect paid up members (of any party) are more likely to leave/defect because they are the ones most likely to become disillusioned by political issues/events. In the case of the Tories, loss of membership fees will be compensated for by the millions donated by big business.

[Richard Barrett]

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson was the only person with the front, having been elected to PM, to turn round as October approached and tell the British people that its all too difficult, revoke article 50 and then start again as to how the UK will go forward in the 21st century.

I'm sure he would have no problem doing that if he thought there was something in it for him - remembering that he prepared speeches going both ways on Brexit and then used the one that he thought would better serve his personal ambitions.

Labour membership numbers probably have fallen back somewhat since their last peak in 2017, and that would be largely because of the perception that the party's position on Brexit is "muddled", although I would say that it's hard to imagine how that policy could have been much different, whether one personally agrees with it or not; on the plus side it arises partly from not wanting to treat people who voted Leave as idiots. I would like to imagine that a progressive politics working towards social justice and equality would be based on not thinking of people as idiots.