Grumble Thread

[Old Grumpy]

That sounds complex. Hope it can be resolved.

Thanks - now resolved: water dripping from leaky joint on cold water inlet tap at the top of the hot water tank- drips falling on to some sort of electrically controlled valve* further down the outside of the tank. Both tap and valve replaced - just waiting for the bill now



*The engineer did mention the name of the valve, but I've forgotten it

[Cockney Sparrow]

*The engineer did mention the name of the valve, but I've forgotten it

Zone valve? (Stops the flow of water from the boiler when the thermostat indicates the desired temperature in the hot water cylinder has been achieved).

[Old Grumpy]

Zone valve? (Stops the flow of water from the boiler when the thermostat indicates the desired temperature in the hot water cylinder has been achieved).

Yes, could well be that...

...it was something to do with divisions

[gradus]

For future reference if like me you lose your Internet connection for a month through no fault of your own and neither your ISP nor BTWholesale fix it and more or less give up, there is a loss of service payment that kicks in after a day and it is quite appreciable but only if your |ISP happens to be in the voluntary Ofcom compensation scheme. Mine wasn't and has refused to cough up anything, They're called Digital Space and although their Internet connections all flow through BT Wholesale who are in the scheme, it's no dice.
Why on earth the scheme is not made compulsory is a mystery.

[french frank]

For future reference if like me you lose your Internet connection for a month through no fault of your own and neither your ISP nor BTWholesale fix it and more or less give up, there is a loss of service payment that kicks in after a day and it is quite appreciable but only if your |ISP happens to be in the voluntary Ofcom compensation scheme. Mine wasn't and has refused to cough up anything, They're called Digital Space and although their Internet connections all flow through BT Wholesale who are in the scheme, it's no dice.
Why on earth the scheme is not made compulsory is a mystery.

I probably pay through the nose to be on btinternet, but I get to keep the 'mini hub ' which they supply free the first time the connection goes down. That, and the iphone, keep me online - which I find satisfactory.

[oddoneout]

I've just found a reference to an Ofgem call for views on standing charges, which closed on Friday. It opened on 16th November, I knew nothing about it,did anyone else? As a former Ebico electricity customer I have experienced bills without standing charges and would have wanted to have my say - but judging from my supplier's lack of mention it was not something that companies themselves wanted to share, so where did information about it appear?

[LMcD]

I've just found a reference to an Ofgem call for views on standing charges, which closed on Friday. It opened on 16th November, I knew nothing about it,did anyone else? As a former Ebico electricity customer I have experienced bills without standing charges and would have wanted to have my say - but judging from my supplier's lack of mention it was not something that companies themselves wanted to share, so where did information about it appear?

There was plenty of early coverage on Money Saving Expert, BBC TV and radio, Citizens Advice, gov.uk and elsewhere.

[oddoneout]

There was plenty of early coverage on Money Saving Expert, BBC TV and radio, Citizens Advice, gov.uk and elsewhere.

While I am grateful to you for the info, that list has just given me a nasty example of how easy it is to miss out or be marginalised. I stopped watching MSE some time ago - I found the hyperactive, at times oversimplified, approach too much to take(as someone who for many years was in no position to do direct debit the unrelenting go DD line was offputting and unhelpful) although I do look up the online site for specific queries, and respect the good work Martin Lewis does and continues to do in covering financial and related issues. I stopped watching BBC News decades ago and other TV news some time later(C4 news for specific matters on rare occasions), and radio has always only ever been R3. Citizen's Advice, like MSE, is an occasional online fact check contact, gov.uk is similar, or to do my tax return.
I have access to the FT online, if they covered it I evidently missed it, and as will be obvious from my posts I read the Guardian online - so like the FT if it was covered I missed it. It's not the sort of thing the weekend edition of the local rag which I have would cover.
All rather disconcerting.

[smittims]

I've always been against standing charges on the grounds that they're unfair to low users; I feel that the entire cost of one's use of a service should be in proportion to the amount of use. I had this out with a sales call from BT years ago, when he asked me if there was any improvement I'd like to see. I said I thought it unfair that discounts were offered only to people who made more calls, and that those who made fewer calls should pay a lower line rental. He had no answer to that. Standing charges are just a way of getting something out of everyone.

[oddoneout]

I've always been against standing charges on the grounds that they're unfair to low users; I feel that the entire cost of one's use of a service should be in proportion to the amount of use. I had this out with a sales call from BT years ago, when he asked me if there was any improvement I'd like to see. I said I thought it unfair that discounts were offered only to people who made more calls, and that those who made fewer calls should pay a lower line rental. He had no answer to that. Standing charges are just a way of getting something out of everyone.

The argument for everyone paying the same standing charges is that the cost of maintaining the infrastructure to the address isn't dependent on how much "product" is used, which I can understand.
There are 2 problems as far as I'm concerned with the existing arrangement, although only one affects me directly. Those who are on pre-payment meters are faced with a situation where, if they have no money to put on the meter, the charges keep being added (thus also adding to any existing debt), even if they are not using/cannot use any electricity, and any top-up will go to that payment before allowing any electricity use. If they use the emergency credit arrangements to get some power back, that will also be taken first. Although paying what's owed before increasing the debt is sensible, when people are on the edge, arbitrary repayment like that isn't helpful. An acquaintance described not being able to top-up the meter but seeing the numbers going up(due to SCs), then having to use the emergency credit, scraping £10 together for a top-up and coming home with virtually nothing in terms of electricity to use. It was the SCs that really annoyed since they were totally out of the household's control, racking up unrelated to whether they could even use the electricity.
The recent increases in charges seem to me to be a 'get out of jail free card' to get money in for things other than infrastructure maintenance, the most obvious being ensuring existing profits - for dividends/pay bonuses etc first and foremost rather than covering operating costs, as far as I can see. I know that there have been considerable costs associated with the collapse of suppliers and the subsequent rescue arrangements - but that is where profits should go before shelling out to CEOs etc.
With Ebico I paid a higher unit charge, with no separate standing charge, and everyone paid the same rate,( i.e no discounts for heavy users, a mad arrangement that cost me dear with the previous supplier n-power ) and it was a non-profit so the demands on the trading surpluses were different. My bills immediately reduced significantly, despite being an all-electric house and on an E7 tariff for the storage heaters. The energy supplier's cartel didn't like it though(shone rather too bright a light on their own businesses) so eventually it was forced to shut down.

[LMcD]

The argument for everyone paying the same standing charges is that the cost of maintaining the infrastructure to the address isn't dependent on how much "product" is used, which I can understand.
There are 2 problems as far as I'm concerned with the existing arrangement, although only one affects me directly. Those who are on pre-payment meters are faced with a situation where, if they have no money to put on the meter, the charges keep being added (thus also adding to any existing debt), even if they are not using/cannot use any electricity, and any top-up will go to that payment before allowing any electricity use. If they use the emergency credit arrangements to get some power back, that will also be taken first. Although paying what's owed before increasing the debt is sensible, when people are on the edge, arbitrary repayment like that isn't helpful. An acquaintance described not being able to top-up the meter but seeing the numbers going up(due to SCs), then having to use the emergency credit, scraping £10 together for a top-up and coming home with virtually nothing in terms of electricity to use. It was the SCs that really annoyed since they were totally out of the household's control, racking up unrelated to whether they could even use the electricity.
The recent increases in charges seem to me to be a 'get out of jail free card' to get money in for things other than infrastructure maintenance, the most obvious being ensuring existing profits - for dividends/pay bonuses etc first and foremost rather than covering operating costs, as far as I can see. I know that there have been considerable costs associated with the collapse of suppliers and the subsequent rescue arrangements - but that is where profits should go before shelling out to CEOs etc.
With Ebico I paid a higher unit charge, with no separate standing charge, and everyone paid the same rate,( i.e no discounts for heavy users, a mad arrangement that cost me dear with the previous supplier n-power ) and it was a non-profit so the demands on the trading surpluses were different. My bills immediately reduced significantly, despite being an all-electric house and on an E7 tariff for the storage heaters. The energy supplier's cartel didn't like it though(shone rather too bright a light on their own businesses) so eventually it was forced to shut down.

I'm resigned to the fact that they'll screw us one way or another, which is why I no longer bother to get even mildly irritated, but just add more layers if I too cold, remove them when I get too hot, and avoid using the oven as often as possible..

[smittims]

That is broadly my strategy too. M.O-H has bought an 'air-fryer' to reduce use of the oven. I don't even know what it is!

[LMcD]

That is broadly my strategy too. M.O-H has bought an 'air-fryer' to reduce use of the oven. I don't even know what it is!

An air-fryer is a mendicant in a helicopter.

[oddoneout]

An air-fryer is a mendicant in a helicopter.

Love it!

[oddoneout]

That is broadly my strategy too. M.O-H has bought an 'air-fryer' to reduce use of the oven. I don't even know what it is!

Recently they've been the excuse to make several indifferent TV programmes on various channels...