Grumble Thread

[oddoneout]

On point is that if we do care about any animals, why should we care about some over others. OTOH if we don't care about any of them, then it surely doesn't matter!

What makes us care about some at all?

Now think about crocodiles!

In this context isn't the initial difference that things like cats and dogs are domesticated - humans have chosen them to share their lives and dwellings, for various reasons, and will therefore attach some priority to them. Now we have reached the age of the fur baby, and designer breeds, I would argue that priority has gone too far, certainly for the welfare of the animals themselves. It isn't confined to household pets ether - modern farm animals are subject to breeding abuse as well, in the "service" of humans.
Caring about the wider world of animals is for most people superficial - being concerned about the giant panda becoming extinct isn't in quite the same place as caring for a pet.

[Serial_Apologist]

.... Mozart had a pet starling.

I mentioned the injured jackdaw my mother took in as a child, some time ago.

[Serial_Apologist]

On point is that if we do care about any animals, why should we care about some over others. OTOH if we don't care about any of them, then it surely doesn't matter!

What makes us care about some at all?

Now think about crocodiles!

They are fellow beings, we are rational beings. Obviously you learn what creatures can be dangerous through advice and experience. I just think one has to be brutalized in some way or taught from a very early age not to trust in "the natural" to hate other species - it is probably an outward-directed projected form of self-loathing handed down generationally, often reinforced by cultural beliefs.

[smittims]

Humanity's relationship with the rest of the animal kingdom, going back to our own ancestry as primates (unless you deny Darwin's Theory of Evolution, as some still do, I beleive) is surely so inevitable and complex that what, if anything, needs explaining is rather the absence in some people of any feeling for animals.


One thing not mentioned is anthropomorphisation, the tendency to imagine animals having human characteristics and personalities. Anyone who spends time with animals can find it difficult to avoid the feeling that they do have quasi-human attributes. This doesn't have to imply the logical conclusion of friendly smiling crocodiles and bears (and even Tyrannosaurus Rex) among cuddly toys, animals that in reality are deadly to humans. The cat or dog who knows how to get your attention or tell you somethng, is so familar as to be an undeniable concept.

[Dave2002]

In their native habitat, what harm do they do?

They will eat zebras if they get a chance.

[french frank]

They will eat zebras if they get a chance.

According to this there are approx (haven't added them up) the same no. of crocs in the world as there are cats in the UK (about 11m). The number of birds killed by cats in this country exceeds 55m every year. I doubt that the number of zebras killed by crocs worldwide is remotely comparable.

So if we consider the level of destruction I think crocs can be left out of the equation. In any case, Nature being red in tooth and claw, there are many predators that can kill crocodiles, whereas cats, in the UK, are protected by law and so are able to kill 55m birds every year.

[oddoneout]

They will eat zebras if they get a chance.

And lots of other large mammals, depending on what country you look at(they are not confined to Africa), and of course humans fall prey as well.

[french frank]

and of course humans fall prey as well.

Though humans and crocodiles don't inhabit the same natural environment in the same way that domestic cats and garden birds do.

[Pulcinella]

Why are ballets so rarely credited with the music being performed: for me, that's probably the main attraction.

Here's the blurb from the cinema showing of a MacMillan triple bill at the ROH next year:

Danses Concertantes, commissioned by Ninette de Valois in 1955, was MacMillan’s first major work. An early sign of the incredible artistic output that would follow, the work’s critical success spurred MacMillan to abandon performing in favour of choreography. It is followed by Different Drummer, MacMillan’s complex and haunting balletic interpretation of Woyzeck, Georg Büchner's play about a soldier’s descent into madness. The mixed programme concludes with Requiem, his 1976 work for Stuttgart Ballet, created in memory of its late artistic director, MacMillan’s friend and former Royal Ballet dancer and choreographer John Cranko.

I can make a shrewd guess that Danses Concertantes will be Stravinsky (), I've googled and discovered that Different Drummer uses music by Webern and Schoenberg, and hope to discover whose Requiem setting we might have.
But does this really not matter to true balletomanes?

PS: It's Fauré's.

[vinteuil]

Different Drummer uses music by Webern and Schoenberg

Anton Webern (Passacaglia for orchestra, Op. 1) and Arnold Schoenberg (Verklärte Nacht).

But I agree, infuriating the inadequacy of musical info

[smittims]

I've noticed this for years. I remember reading about a ballet called 'The Dream', and I thought, 'it will hardly be The Dream of Gerontius', and of course it wasn't, but they didn't mention Mendelssohn. I wonder if it's choreography-enthusiasts' revenge, bumping-up representation for choreographers vis-a-vis composers.

[Pulcinella]

ATMs that don't issue a receipt after they've asked the question if you want one or not.

It's not a great programming feat to alter the menu such that if the paper has run out you're not presented with the option of requesting a receipt in the first place!!

[Serial_Apologist]

Though humans and crocodiles don't inhabit the same natural environment in the same way that domestic cats and garden birds do.

Not in the same way, true, but nevertheless we still do all occupy it. Part of the problem is "us" not realising this! Thank heavens we still have David Attenborough to remind us!

[Old Grumpy]

Walking on a narrow back lane this afternoon, a-hole in a car didn't slow down - forced to step quickly onto the verge treading on a hawthorn hedge trimming in the process...


...thorn came straight through the sole of my walking shoe - ouch, but no blood drawn. Could not get the thorn back out with fingers, OH had to get car and fetch me as I could not use the shoe. Got home, can't get the thorn out with pliers either- just breaks off. Result one pair of quality walking shoes destined for the skip

[Serial_Apologist]

Walking on a narrow back lane this afternoon, a-hole in a car didn't slow down - forced to step quickly onto the verge treading on a hawthorn hedge trimming in the process...


...thorn came straight through the sole of my walking shoe - ouch, but no blood drawn. Could not get the thorn back out with fingers, OH had to get car and fetch me as I could not use the shoe. Got home, can't get the thorn out with pliers either- just breaks off. Result one pair of quality walking shoes destined for the skip

Oh NO!!! Try using a sharp pointed knife, stout sewing needle or knitting needle to prize it out.