Grumble Thread

[Petrushka]

If they don't have a meter reading at the point the prices change then whatever figure they choose for your consumption up to that date, and then from that date to when your bill is issued, is a guesstimate. When the increases were small that didn't matter too much, but given the scale of the increases this time I for one want to do better than guesstimate. The figures for standing charges will be accurate as they are a flat rate (exorbitant for electricity in my view) per day so actual consumption is irrelevant.
As far as smart meters go, an article in the Guardian says this and also
https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ch-prices-rise

According to the EON Next website they are accepting meter readings dated March 31 until April 9 so other companies may be doing likewise. My smart meter is one of those that sends information over every half hour and EON say that as the process is automatic smart meter owners don't need to do anything.

[gradus]

I could never get the Bulb meter reading site to open and have always emailed readings to them which they have always accepted and I assume that they will continue to do so.

[antongould]

According to the EON Next website they are accepting meter readings dated March 31 until April 9 so other companies may be doing likewise. My smart meter is one of those that sends information over every half hour and EON say that as the process is automatic smart meter owners don't need to do anything.

That should almost certainly be rewritten as “ …. people with smart meters that work don’t need to do anything.” EDF website still down so I cannot be sure whether or not mine is operating correctly at this critical time ……

[Dave2002]

That should almost certainly be rewritten as “ …. people with smart meters that work don’t need to do anything.” EDF website still down so I cannot be sure whether or not mine is operating correctly at this critical time ……

If your meter has a readable and visible output format, you could video the meter, or write down the numbers each day. Of course if it's hidden, or works with some obscure digital format - such as electronic interchange data - you might not be able to do that .

[antongould]

If your meter has a readable and visible output format, you could video the meter, or write down the numbers each day. Of course if it's hidden, or works with some obscure digital format - such as electronic interchange data - you might not be able to do that .

I read my meters everyday …. more than a little sad …… what I am worried about is that communications between the meter and EDF break down occasionally …….

[Frances_iom]

don't worry - all will be resolved to the greatest benefit of EDF - their reputation is such that you should not expect any thing else.

[Serial_Apologist]

I read my meters everyday …. more than a little sad …… what I am worried about is that communications between the meter and EDF break down occasionally …….

Yes, I daren't check my bank statement to find out if the direct debit, which takes place on the first of the month, has changed as a result of registering my readings yesterday, in line with Martin Lewis advice, because I don't know if the readings went through. Tomorrow then.

[antongould]

Yes, I daren't check my bank statement to find out if the direct debit, which takes place on the first of the month, has changed as a result of registering my readings yesterday, in line with Martin Lewis advice, because I don't know if the readings went through. Tomorrow then.

They can’t do it straight away S_A, they have to give you notice - at least ten working days - of any change as per the Direct Debit Guarantee ….

[Serial_Apologist]

They can’t do it straight away S_A, they have to give you notice - at least ten working days - of any change as per the Direct Debit Guarantee ….

They already did, Anton, some time ago. My intention in following the Martin Lewis line was to put a stopper on it.

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks ff. I've managed just now to register readings after being blocked an hour ago; the next page - after I had clicked SUBMIT - said sorry, they are experiencing technical problems today, try again later; I then back-paged to make another attempt and it stated that I had already submitted my readings today. So, all I can really do is assume they've passed through the system, but that technical difficulties can't tell me so! There's really nothing more one can do - fortunately my increases are relatively modest compared with others we've been hearing about: up from £84 to £107 for my dual tariff.

They still put up my payment - I checked today. Maybe there'll be a repayment or adjustment anon, but I'm not banking on it...

[oddoneout]

They still put up my payment - I checked today. Maybe there'll be a repayment or adjustment anon, but I'm not banking on it...

In theory they will have looked at past usage and based the increased DD on that; it's a question of how much "margin for error" (in their favour, excuse being to prevent you running up a debt...) they have also included. Check next month and see how much adrift you are - ie lending them money - and whether it's enough to warrant asking for a refund - there are rules I believe but I don't know to what extent the companies are proactive in offering adjustments and on what basis eg above a certain amount, over a certain period, etc. It was what I hated about having to have fixed monthly payments years ago when I was stuck for a while with Npower after moving house, and also BT. Both companies were quick to increase (for flimsy reasons in BT's case) and slow or totally resistant(BT again) to dropping them when credit built up. I know for many people having the same amount going out each month makes budgeting easier; it does though put the onus on the customer to check occasionally that payments and bills are not too much adrift. The large hikes now will likely make more folk do that, and the easy days for companies of having many customers building up large credit balances will come to an end.

[antongould]

In theory they will have looked at past usage and based the increased DD on that; it's a question of how much "margin for error" (in their favour, excuse being to prevent you running up a debt...) they have also included. Check next month and see how much adrift you are - ie lending them money - and whether it's enough to warrant asking for a refund - there are rules I believe but I don't know to what extent the companies are proactive in offering adjustments and on what basis eg above a certain amount, over a certain period, etc. It was what I hated about having to have fixed monthly payments years ago when I was stuck for a while with Npower after moving house, and also BT. Both companies were quick to increase (for flimsy reasons in BT's case) and slow or totally resistant(BT again) to dropping them when credit built up. I know for many people having the same amount going out each month makes budgeting easier; it does though put the onus on the customer to check occasionally that payments and bills are not too much adrift. The large hikes now will likely make more folk do that, and the easy days for companies of having many customers building up large credit balances will come to an end.

To be fair to the energy companies, which is a new experience for me, they have a dilemma at present reassessing monthly payments ….. the latest projections suggest the price cap will rise by another 30% on 1 October so should they build this into their current annual reassessments …. ??? If they don’t and 30%, or worse, happens their customers will face massive increases on their first reassessments following 1 October.
When I worked in the industry I was surprised that monthly payment customers main wish was that we made the payment changes as smooth as possible …. to do that you build in the 30% now …..

[Petrushka]

In theory they will have looked at past usage and based the increased DD on that; it's a question of how much "margin for error" (in their favour, excuse being to prevent you running up a debt...) they have also included. Check next month and see how much adrift you are - ie lending them money - and whether it's enough to warrant asking for a refund - there are rules I believe but I don't know to what extent the companies are proactive in offering adjustments and on what basis eg above a certain amount, over a certain period, etc. It was what I hated about having to have fixed monthly payments years ago when I was stuck for a while with Npower after moving house, and also BT. Both companies were quick to increase (for flimsy reasons in BT's case) and slow or totally resistant(BT again) to dropping them when credit built up. I know for many people having the same amount going out each month makes budgeting easier; it does though put the onus on the customer to check occasionally that payments and bills are not too much adrift. The large hikes now will likely make more folk do that, and the easy days for companies of having many customers building up large credit balances will come to an end.

All of this is precisely the reason why I will not, under any circumstances, pay for my energy by Direct Debit. Why should I help EON's cash flow during the summer months by still paying £80 a month (or whatever) when I've used next to nothing? The energy companies push the line that it's easier for you to budget that way, when what they really mean is that it helps them to budget more easily. It's one of those lies that just gets swallowed by the public at large. Another lie is that you will pay less by DD, something that is difficult to prove one way or the other but you can be sure it will always be in their favour.

The downside is that winter bills will be high, but the very considerable upside is that you will reap the benefit during summer with very low bills. You use the summer months to build up your bank balance for the winter. Another upside to paying when you get the bill is the much greater ease of finding any discrepancies. When I had a dispute with EON several years ago I was able to give them chapter and verse in such a way that they ended up writing off a considerable sum of spurious debt that had appeared out of nowhere due to 'estimated' billing.

The rule I have for paying by DD is that the amount is fixed and for a known length of time, or, in the case of Council Tax, is fixed for a year when you are clearly advised in advance of the new figure. All of this chopping and changing and readjusting by the energy companies is giving them carte blanche to do what they like and making it very hard for the customer to keep tabs on what is going on.

[oddoneout]

All of this is precisely the reason why I will not, under any circumstances, pay for my energy by Direct Debit. Why should I help EON's cash flow during the summer months by still paying £80 a month (or whatever) when I've used next to nothing? The energy companies push the line that it's easier for you to budget that way, when what they really mean is that it helps them to budget more easily. It's one of those lies that just gets swallowed by the public at large. Another lie is that you will pay less by DD, something that is difficult to prove one way or the other but you can be sure it will always be in their favour.

The downside is that winter bills will be high, but the very considerable upside is that you will reap the benefit during summer with very low bills. You use the summer months to build up your bank balance for the winter. Another upside to paying when you get the bill is the much greater ease of finding any discrepancies. When I had a dispute with EON several years ago I was able to give them chapter and verse in such a way that they ended up writing off a considerable sum of spurious debt that had appeared out of nowhere due to 'estimated' billing.

The rule I have for paying by DD is that the amount is fixed and for a known length of time, or, in the case of Council Tax, is fixed for a year when you are clearly advised in advance of the new figure. All of this chopping and changing and readjusting by the energy companies is giving them carte blanche to do what they like and making it very hard for the customer to keep tabs on what is going on.

Very much my take on things but I accept that many folk are happier to accept the downsides for - well I was going to say an easy life - but now I think I should amend that since so many are in an impossible position now, and say for a more predictable life when it comes to money that needs to be found each month. I do pay my gas and electric by DD but it is quarterly and the amount is calculated and notified after I have submitted readings. I would only get an estimated bill if I didn't get my version in before the deadline.
The paying less for DD tends to be on the basis of charging you to pay by other means, rather than actually saving money, which is not an interpretation to which I subscribe, but appears to be the norm. To begin with it was charging to pay by cheque, which was a nice little earner for BT for instance,whose subsidiary set up to handle cheque payments made a profit of several millions each year, despite their whinge that it cost them so much to process such payments that their charges were only at a level to cover their costs. The "costs" presumably had an inbuilt factor to allow for CEO and dividend requirements which necessitated making a profit...
I have been "migrated" to Shell from the Post Office for broadband and they can't provide the same payment method - a PO budget payment card. The equivalent is having monthly paper bills which have the scan code to use for payment at the PO but for which I would be charged £1 a time. I objected and have been told that I only need to have and pay for the first bill, go back to email notification of the amount to pay, and then re-use the code subsequently. I am doubtful, not least as they have already gone back on more than one promise made at the time of the takeover, but when a bill finally arrives (3 months behind so far and counting - it looks as if Shell broadband weren't ready to take the business on in the first place and then the government dumping of failed energy company customers on to the energy supply side as well has brought everything to a grinding halt as far as I can see) I will see how it works out. The monthly budget card system only came about because when a previous fixed contract came to an end I couldn't continue with quarterly bills paid on demand and refused to pay for paper bills or to have DD, but in fact it worked fine and being able to use my credit card built up my John Lewis rewards nicely to get more gift vouchers.

[cloughie]

All of this is precisely the reason why I will not, under any circumstances, pay for my energy by Direct Debit. Why should I help EON's cash flow during the summer months by still paying £80 a month (or whatever) when I've used next to nothing? The energy companies push the line that it's easier for you to budget that way, when what they really mean is that it helps them to budget more easily. It's one of those lies that just gets swallowed by the public at large. Another lie is that you will pay less by DD, something that is difficult to prove one way or the other but you can be sure it will always be in their favour.

The downside is that winter bills will be high, but the very considerable upside is that you will reap the benefit during summer with very low bills. You use the summer months to build up your bank balance for the winter. Another upside to paying when you get the bill is the much greater ease of finding any discrepancies. When I had a dispute with EON several years ago I was able to give them chapter and verse in such a way that they ended up writing off a considerable sum of spurious debt that had appeared out of nowhere due to 'estimated' billing.

The rule I have for paying by DD is that the amount is fixed and for a known length of time, or, in the case of Council Tax, is fixed for a year when you are clearly advised in advance of the new figure. All of this chopping and changing and readjusting by the energy companies is giving them carte blanche to do what they like and making it very hard for the customer to keep tabs on what is going on.

So how are you billed by your provider, Pet? I pay by DD but as I am supplying monthly readings I see no reason why they should not take an amount out based on that - I’ve not asked them the question but may do so as I am happy to pay as I go.