Grumble Thread

[Petrushka]

Chinese tat

Just about anything you buy in this country nowadays comes with a 'Made in China' label.

I bought myself a luxury leather armchair last autumn expecting to have something made by traditional English craftsmanship, but no, there it was - 'Made in China'. Everything, everything is made in China! As it happens, the chair is fine but this reliance on Chinese goods and the wholesale disappearance of our own crafts isn't going to end well.

[cloughie]

Just about anything you buy in this country nowadays comes with a 'Made in China' label.

I bought myself a luxury leather armchair last autumn expecting to have something made by traditional English craftsmanship, but no, there it was - 'Made in China'. Everything, everything is made in China! As it happens, the chair is fine but this reliance on Chinese goods and the wholesale disappearance of our own crafts isn't going to end well.

Add to that the state of trade with the EU, we’d better sort out our manufacturing sector sooner rather than later. Now If my memory serves me correctly there was a Prime Minister in the 1980s who ......

[oddoneout]

Just about anything you buy in this country nowadays comes with a 'Made in China' label.

I bought myself a luxury leather armchair last autumn expecting to have something made by traditional English craftsmanship, but no, there it was - 'Made in China'. Everything, everything is made in China! As it happens, the chair is fine but this reliance on Chinese goods and the wholesale disappearance of our own crafts isn't going to end well.

Even when something says Made in Britain it is often more accurately described as Assembled in Britain, from parts shipped in from elsewhere including China. This has been a major stumbling block for businesses trying to continue their exports to the EU since the proportion of non-UK material has a bearing on how it is viewed for tax and other purposes.

[teamsaint]

Just about anything you buy in this country nowadays comes with a 'Made in China' label.

I bought myself a luxury leather armchair last autumn expecting to have something made by traditional English craftsmanship, but no, there it was - 'Made in China'. Everything, everything is made in China! As it happens, the chair is fine but this reliance on Chinese goods and the wholesale disappearance of our own crafts isn't going to end well.

Your point is generally well made , however, dig around and there are surprises. I bought a tv for my mum last Xmas....made in Britain. It was exactly what I wanted, and a very reasonable price. Be interesting to know what % of components were UK in origin.

https://fergusontv.com/aboutus/

One of the lessons we simply have to learn from the last few years is to develop a greater self reliance across food, medicine, fuel, engineering products, footballers, tech goods and infrastructure, PPE, etc etc. Of course trade is vital too, but a strategic overview of supply chains for necessities is surely long overdue.

[Bryn]

Your point is generally well made , however, dig around and there are surprises. I bought a tv for my mum last Xmas....made in Britain. It was exactly what I wanted, and a very reasonable price. Be interesting to know what % of components were UK in origin.

https://fergusontv.com/aboutus/

One of the lessons we simply have to learn from the last few years is to develop a greater self reliance across food, medicine, fuel, engineering products, footballers, tech goods and infrastructure, PPE, etc etc. Of course trade is vital too, but a strategic overview of supply chains for necessities is surely long overdue.

Not too worried regarding footballers but otherwise, I concur.

[teamsaint]

Not too worried regarding footballers but otherwise, I concur.

Be good for the balance of payments.

( whatever happened to that, the figures used to be a low point of each month !! Never seems to get mentioned these days .)

[oddoneout]

Your point is generally well made , however, dig around and there are surprises. I bought a tv for my mum last Xmas....made in Britain. It was exactly what I wanted, and a very reasonable price. Be interesting to know what % of components were UK in origin.

https://fergusontv.com/aboutus/

One of the lessons we simply have to learn from the last few years is to develop a greater self reliance across food, medicine, fuel, engineering products, footballers, tech goods and infrastructure, PPE, etc etc. Of course trade is vital too, but a strategic overview of supply chains for necessities is surely long overdue.

There is a rather big hurdle of cost implications to be overcome though? Currently it is cheaper to buy in things from places like China, and even send UK produce(fish in particular I believe) out to China for processing then ship back to the UK rather than do it 'in house'. If there were parity of environmental, employment conditions and other issues that might force a rethink, but even if that does happen it won't be anytime soon as they say, and certainly not so long as achieving high profit margins are the only consideration. There is also the question of public acceptance ( whether that is from choice or forced) of higher prices, although again that is muddied by the profit issue.
The capabilities and in many cases the existing businesses are there, but whether they can be scaled up(a question the horticulture industry for instance is having to face with continued easy access to plants from Holland doubtful), and whether the mindset exists in the population at large to buy/consume less but of better and longer lasting quality I don't know.

[kernelbogey]

I read the astonishing claim - in connection with the ship stuck in the Suez Canal - that it is cheaper to send Scottish fish to China to be gutted than to gut them in Scotland - mindboggling! (Even gut-wrenching.)

[Pulcinella]

I read the astonishing claim - in connection with the ship stuck in the Suez Canal - that it is cheaper to send Scottish fish to China to be gutted than to gut them in Scotland - mindboggling! (Even gut-wrenching.)

It wasn't just sending them there, either, but bringing them back again, I think I saw in the same report you probably read.
I found that bit hard to believe, though; or are they then packaged and brought back frozen?

[oddoneout]

It wasn't just sending them there, either, but bringing them back again, I think I saw in the same report you probably read.
I found that bit hard to believe, though; or are they then packaged and brought back frozen?

The term "fresh" in connection with fish is a somewhat flexible one... The non-frozen stuff on sale will in most cases have been previously frozen (it will say so on a pre-pack although off a fish counter it likely won't be obvious) either at sea before being landed and/or during the various processing stages. The gutted fish is presumably frozen again for the return journey from China before being further processed - such as filleted and smoked - in the UK. If workers in China are paid just a few pounds per day, as I have seen claimed, it becomes obvious how the economics stack up.

[teamsaint]

There is a rather big hurdle of cost implications to be overcome though? Currently it is cheaper to buy in things from places like China, and even send UK produce(fish in particular I believe) out to China for processing then ship back to the UK rather than do it 'in house'. If there were parity of environmental, employment conditions and other issues that might force a rethink, but even if that does happen it won't be anytime soon as they say, and certainly not so long as achieving high profit margins are the only consideration. There is also the question of public acceptance ( whether that is from choice or forced) of higher prices, although again that is muddied by the profit issue.
The capabilities and in many cases the existing businesses are there, but whether they can be scaled up(a question the horticulture industry for instance is having to face with continued easy access to plants from Holland doubtful), and whether the mindset exists in the population at large to buy/consume less but of better and longer lasting quality I don't know.

Yes, there are obvious cost or investment implications. However, we saw with PPE as a straightforward example , that short term cost savings can easily get lost in a crisis. There are some things best traded ,and some things where security of supply needs consideration . We need to make readjustments, and swallow some of the cost. i suspect that all political parties will move in the direction of accepting this post pandemic, to differing degrees.

We can check with Labour when they come out of hiding.

[jayne lee wilson]

Your point is generally well made , however, dig around and there are surprises. I bought a tv for my mum last Xmas....made in Britain. It was exactly what I wanted, and a very reasonable price. Be interesting to know what % of components were UK in origin.

https://fergusontv.com/aboutus/

One of the lessons we simply have to learn from the last few years is to develop a greater self reliance across food, medicine, fuel, engineering products, footballers, tech goods and infrastructure, PPE, etc etc. Of course trade is vital too, but a strategic overview of supply chains for necessities is surely long overdue.

But this would take years to even begin to develop, and with a government that keeps on about "Global Britain" and shows little understanding of business or the need for its support**, with finances badly damaged through Covid and Brexit, just when we have withdrawn from the largest free trade block in the world (and keep causing endless friction, quite wilfully).
All this in a world which is indeed truly global in its supply and demand. My visit to Sainsburys become more alarming every week with the empty shelves and price increases -and on a restricted diet. So what do you do while the food rots unpicked in the fields?

(** when asked by businesses across UK what to do as the import/export crisis engulfed them this year, the govt dept concerned told them to set up European subsidies; which many did, some moving their main operations abroad).

As for footballers, it depends who you support. If we cannot attract the best European and International footballers to UK teams, forget any success in European competition. Which has meant a great deal to some of us, for many years.......
Under "Nationality", my census form reads: "European".

[teamsaint]

But this would take years to even begin to develop, and with a government that keeps on about "Global Britain" and shows little understanding of business or the need for its support**, with finances badly damaged through Covid and Brexit, just when we have withdrawn from the largest free trade block in the world (and keep causing endless friction, quite wilfully).
All this in a world which is indeed truly global in its supply and demand. My visit to Sainsburys become more alarming every week with the empty shelves and price increases -and on a restricted diet. So what do you do while the food rots unpicked in the fields?

(** when asked by businesses across UK what to do as the import/export crisis engulfed them this year, the govt dept concerned told them to set up European subsidies; which many did, some moving their main operations abroad).

As for footballers, it depends who you support. If we cannot attract the best European and International footballers to UK teams, forget any success in European competition. Which has meant a great deal to some of us, for many years.......
Under "Nationality", my census form reads: "European".

It certainly wouldn’t take years to start to develop certain strategic industries. And of course we have industries that could scale up given the right conditions, vaccine production being a good example. It might take longer to complete. But the drivers are there, and we ignore them at our peril.

This is not about isolationism, it is about have having some basic contingencies in a world where supply chains can be more fragile than we care to think about.

We have to live and work in our self imposed post EU situation, whether we like it or not, and to learn the lessons of the past.

[Serial_Apologist]

It certainly wouldn’t take years to start to develop certain strategic industries. And of course we have industries that could scale up given the right conditions, vaccine production being a good example. It might take longer to complete. But the drivers are there, and we ignore them at our peril.

This is not about isolationism, it is about have having some basic contingencies in a world where supply chains can be more fragile than we care to think about.

We have to live and work in our self imposed post EU situation, whether we like it or not, and to learn the lessons of the past.

This will only work when we get rid of the competitive model with its primal bottom line, just-in-time, short-termist decision determining imperatives acting as a constant sword of Damocles over environments thereby rendered increasingly unsustainable, whether they be natural or social, create alternative, local production bases and economies/economics, and send the specuilators off to some island somewhere comfy for them to carry on their games of speculative gambling with worthless paper money harmlessly behind guard dogs and barbed wire. There - for all you complainers I've crammed the gist of everything into one sentence.

[teamsaint]

This will only work when we get rid of the competitive model with its primal bottom line, just-in-time, short-termist decision determining imperatives acting as a constant sword of Damocles over environments thereby rendered increasingly unsustainable, whether they be natural or social, create alternative, local production bases and economies/economics, and send the specuilators off to some island somewhere comfy for them to carry on their games of speculative gambling with worthless paper money harmlessly behind guard dogs and barbed wire. There - for all you complainers I've crammed the gist of everything into one sentence.

We used to have mixed economies......