Grumble Thread

[Bryn]

A series of unfortunate events for me in the past 18 hours. First I had a choice of two concerts to attend last night. While my preference was for that at Iklectik, it was due to finish too late for me to get back home conveniently. Since I had a dental appointment for 8:40 this morning, I was constrained to opt for the City University event. Turned out that was being recorded for future broadcast, in parts, on the New Music Show (first selection in a couple of weeks). To my considerable ennui, I got to the dental surgery this morning to discover the appointment had been cancelled at 40 minutes notice, due to the ill health of the dentist concerned. Had I been warned of this yesterday I would have gone to Iklectik and relied on Radio 3 for the content of the Explore Ensemble event. Just to add to my reasons to grumble, on the bus journey back home last night my laptop developed a problem. Trying to create a new folder crashed Windows Explorer. I have spent the whole morning since returning from the dentist searching for a successful solution to the problem. Eventually, downloading and using shexview-x64 resolved the problem, but without identifying the source. Disabling and re-enabling all the potentially errant items cleared the problem but none could be identified as the culprit. Ah well, at least the laptop's back to working normally and I was able to get a new dental appointment for tomorrow morning. Grumble over.

[Joseph K]

Sorry to hear that, Bryn. Was the City University event the one with the John Croft piece?

[Bryn]

Sorry to hear that, Bryn. Was the City University event the one with the John Croft piece?

Indeed, his Sextet. I have to admit that the piece the concert took its title from, 664 Love Songs by Oliver Leith, was, for me, the low-spot. This is only the second of his works I have heard, his Taxa (BBCSO, Ilan Volkov) being the other, and I thought it both twee and gimmicky. For me, the high point was the shortest piece, Rădulescu's Lux Animae, the only work not to have a programme note devoted to it. Edwin Hillier's new piece, Plastica, had to be curtailed and restarted due to problems with the electronic component.

[Dave2002]

Sorry to hear that, Bryn. Was the City University event the one with the John Croft piece?

I thought it was going to turn into a dentist horror story. Missing the odd concert or two is less of a tragedy, though I agree it might have been an irritation that the dental appointment was cancelled, resulting in the missing of a concert.

[StephenMcK]

Sibilance and lisps are most unappealing qualities on the wireless. They are not the natural traits of the speaking voice and can be very easily overcome or minimised.

[StephenMcK]

As no one is picking up on my remarks I may as well get it off my chest ... there's a new continuity voice of R3 and I really would have to wonder how they got the job. The voice has no presence, the scripts are gabbled and it all emerges from a very recessed palate with virtually no projection. It is as if a thirteen year old got into the studio.

Apply such shortcomings to a musician and I cannot see how they would make it on to the network.

There. I've got that off me chest!!

[LezLee]

As no one is picking up on my remarks I may as well get it off my chest ... there's a new continuity voice of R3 and I really would have to wonder how they got the job. The voice has no presence, the scripts are gabbled and it all emerges from a very recessed palate with virtually no projection. It is as if a thirteen year old got into the studio.

Apply such shortcomings to a musician and I cannot see how they would make it on to the network.

There. I've got that off me chest!!

Male/female? Old/young? Accent? Time of day? Any particular programmes?

[StephenMcK]

I'm disinclined to say. Complaints about continuity announcers in this space have been strongly discouraged in the past as being too personalised. Well, you can hardly talk about a terrible performance without mentioning the performer.

If you were to suggest it was the continuity announcer on Radio 3 this afternoon (Sat 29th Feb) I couldn't possibly comment!

Firstly, the voice is quite insipid and lipy. It's happening too much in the mouth and I'm hearing a lack of support from the diaphragm. Without enough projection there's no resonance in the nasal cavities.

The delivery is much too fast and snappy. Possibly trying to be upbeat and lively but actually just being rushed. There's no time left for sense. No pauses in which the listener can take in what's been said.

Back announcements also crash in on the end of a performance. Really annoying if you've just heard something really poignant. Indeed, I genuinely miss the pauses you used to get on Radio 3 when, unlike the other networks, it had a sense of leisure about it.

Admittedly some of those were down to Peter Barker either finishing packing his pipe or simply reawakening and searching for the pages of his script which he was sure had been there a moment ago.

But seriously, this is a voice I have to turn off. No the shock of the new, just the shock of the untrained.

[Bryn]

I could only catch the forename, not the family name.

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm disinclined to say. Complaints about continuity announcers in this space have been strongly discouraged in the past as being too personalised. Well, you can hardly talk about a terrible performance without mentioning the performer.

If you were to suggest it was the continuity announcer on Radio 3 this afternoon (Sat 29th Feb) I couldn't possibly comment!

Firstly, the voice is quite insipid and lipy. It's happening too much in the mouth and I'm hearing a lack of support from the diaphragm. Without enough projection there's no resonance in the nasal cavities.

The delivery is much too fast and snappy. Possibly trying to be upbeat and lively but actually just being rushed. There's no time left for sense. No pauses in which the listener can take in what's been said.

Back announcements also crash in on the end of a performance. Really annoying if you've just heard something really poignant. Indeed, I genuinely miss the pauses you used to get on Radio 3 when, unlike the other networks, it had a sense of leisure about it.

Admittedly some of those were down to Peter Barker either finishing packing his pipe or simply reawakening and searching for the pages of his script which he was sure had been there a moment ago.

But seriously, this is a voice I have to turn off. No the shock of the new, just the shock of the untrained.

Well Stephen, if this is the young female announcer who introduced Sound of Cinema, Music Planet and J to Z today 29/02/2020, I have to disagree very strongly indeed. She was articulate, tonally clear and placed her semantic stresses on the right words and syllables. Pauses well-placed too.
No sign of anything rushed to my ears at all. I hadn't heard her on the network before and the only very mild negative comment I might offer was a slight over-deliberation in her delivery. But a more easeful, conversational manner can come - crucially given time, which you seem unwilling to allow her. (And if Peter Barker is your touchstone, that is scarcely a surprise. Exactly the old-school gentlemanly style of presentation that was so off-putting to so many. I could make the obvious comment here.... but I'll just get shouted down again...)

But I'm genuinely shocked at the extent, and the length, of your harsh critique.

[Old Grumpy]

Well Stephen, if this is the young female announcer who introduced Sound of Cinema, Music Planet and J to Z today 29/02/2020, I have to disagree very strongly indeed. She was articulate, tonally clear and placed her semantic stresses on the right words and syllables. Pauses well-placed too.
No sign of anything rushed to my ears at all. I hadn't heard her on the network before and the only very mild negative comment I might offer was a slight over-deliberation in her delivery. But a more easeful, conversational manner can come - crucially given time, which you seem unwilling to allow her. (And if Peter Barker is your touchstone, that is scarcely a surprise. Exactly the old-school gentlemanly style of presentation that was so off-putting to so many. I could make the obvious comment here.... but I'll just get shouted down again...)

But I'm genuinely shocked at the extent, and the length, of your harsh critique.

Well said JLW.

OG

DOI Stale, Male and Pale

[StephenMcK]

Can I ask why the announcer's gender is highlighted? Also, the inference behind the remark 'stale, male and pale'.

The imputation seems to be that my remarks are motivated by an objection to someone young and female, and yet I can't see how that is distilled from what I've said.

The next distortion is that I am somehow leading a 'Bring Back Peter Barker' campaign, when in fact I was making fun of him.

As for my 'harsh critique', the assessment is technically correct and was not malicious.

Radio 3 is a big grown up national network and I'd suggest robust criticism goes with the job.

I'm not here for a spat and certainly not her for name calling.

[jayne lee wilson]

Can I ask why the announcer's gender is highlighted? Also, the inference behind the remark 'stale, male and pale'.

The imputation seems to be that my remarks are motivated by an objection to someone young and female, and yet I can't see how that is distilled from what I've said.

The next distortion is that I am somehow leading a 'Bring Back Peter Barker' campaign, when in fact I was making fun of him.

As for my 'harsh critique', the assessment is technically correct and was not malicious.

Radio 3 is a big grown up national network and I'd suggest robust criticism goes with the job.

I'm not here for a spat and certainly not her for name calling.

You said -

"Firstly, the voice is quite insipid and lipy. It's happening too much in the mouth and I'm hearing a lack of support from the diaphragm. Without enough projection there's no resonance in the nasal cavities.

The delivery is much too fast and snappy. Possibly trying to be upbeat and lively but actually just being rushed. There's no time left for sense. No pauses in which the listener can take in what's been said."

It doesn't sound in the least "insipid" to my ears, or as I said, at all "rushed" or "too fast", and I find it perfectly easy to "take in what is being said".
So in what sense is your assessment "technically correct"? And why so very negative?
By which objectively measurable standards? Or do you assume that your own standards are, for whatever assumed reason, superior to my own, or to my powers of aural judgement?

Let us assume for the sake of argument that your description -

"It's happening too much in the mouth and I'm hearing a lack of support from the diaphragm. Without enough projection there's no resonance in the nasal cavities"

...is at least physically related, however accurately, to the voice we heard. The supposedly technical "too much" "lack of support" "no resonance", followed by the self-evidently subjective "too fast and snappy" "rushed" and "no time left for sense" (!?).... assume that everyone else will find similar fault with this voice, and judge it harshly on the grounds of the resulting delivery being difficult to follow or comprehend.

But what if I don't? What if the lack of diaphragmic support or cavitic resonance doesn't bother (in fact, scarcely registers with) me? If I simply say again - I heard a young female voice, perfectly articulate, clear, carefully-paced and comprehensible.

What happens to your subjective standards, which cannot finally be separated from "technical assessment", then?

[Oakapple]

If you ever buy a railcard, I strongly suggest you go for the plastic card version and not one on your phone (you cannot have both).

I'd previously gone for the electronic version, thinking I'd save a bit of plastic but I've had a very fraught morning trying to install it on a new phone. The instructions on how to do it were clear enough but they didn't match with reality. After being on hold for about 45 minutes trying to get through to their helpline, I was informed that they were upgrading their website and app and so they were not working properly today. It's nice they waited for Monday to do it, others usually do it in the early hours of Sunday.

The moral is, use plastic. That doesn't need logins and codes.

[Serial_Apologist]

If you ever buy a railcard, I strongly suggest you go for the plastic card version and not one on your phone (you cannot have both).

I'd previously gone for the electronic version, thinking I'd save a bit of plastic but I've had a very fraught morning trying to install it on a new phone. The instructions on how to do it were clear enough but they didn't match with reality. After being on hold for about 45 minutes trying to get through to their helpline, I was informed that they were upgrading their website and app and so they were not working properly today. It's nice they waited for Monday to do it, others usually do it in the early hours of Sunday.

The moral is, use plastic. That doesn't need logins and codes.

All cash machines in my district have gone over to charging with the exception of one. Previously we had two directly facing each other across a street, one of which charged, the other not - can you believe it?? That one now charges £0.99 for anything involving merely inserting your... banking card. Thinking of poor souls out in the styx miles from evidence of human civilisation, I suppose I have to be thankful we have any means reasonably close at hand for this purpose - but, I mean, just how petty is that???