Grumble Thread

[Serial_Apologist]

<<<"Can you see the point of having pets?">>>....well of course not , not being able to see the point would take us well away from the generosity of spirit that some of us are known for....#

Watts:

"In all directions we use the means of life to justify the ends: we read or go to concerts to improve our minds; we relax to improve our work; we worship God to improve our morals; we even get drunk in order to forget our worries. Everything that is done playfully, without ulterior motive and second thought, makes us feel guilty, and it is even widely thought that such unnmotivated action is impossible. You must have a reason for what you do! But the statement is more of a command than an observation. As soon as the ego is divided from the world, like the effect from its cause, it seems to be the puppet of 'motivations' which are really the disowned parts of ourselves. If we could see ourselves whole, as differing positions in the unified field of the world, we should see that we are unmotivated - for the whole floats freely and does not rest upon something beyond itself". (Watts, 1961, Through a Glass Darkly, in Psychotherapy East and West, PP107-108, Jonathan Cape, London).

It's worth mentioning that Watts wrote the above several years before Lovelock came up with his generally recognised Gaia Theory of a naturally self-regulating principle without need of external agency as the governing principle basis of terrestrial life and, (by deduction) ecological and evolutionary processes.

(from Dave2002) So it actually comes down to liking, and trying to justify one's likes might be very hard"

See?

[eighthobstruction]

Sometimes you see them swim up to people looking into the pool and come to the surface with mouths open even if those people do not bring food

But just think of the fish....they swim around, think they see another fish looking down on them, come up to meet them - and someone throws grit in their face....they dislike this sensation, but, justify their quite liking the food by declaring the fish god says they should turn the other fin....

In Japan; it being such a built up/rule ridden/people intensive place, there are very few personal gardens for ordinary people. People who want to keep and rear large Koi therefore rent space in large warehouses used to house fish tanks of varying sizes - and visit their fish regularly....

[french frank]

For some people yes, but for me right now, no.

Seeing the point of almost anything is often an almost unanswerable question.

My question was merely a response to your statement: "I can't see the point of having dogs as pets." I accepted this as being a true statement, but wondered whether your feeling applied to all animals, birds, comfort blankets, and so on. As it happens I don't have any 'pets', but I can 'see' the point of other people having pets. Even cats . You (as in you, Dave2002) may not see the point of having friends, although many people do. During the summer, going up on to the Common and watching the dogs is something which I, personally (french frank), find hilarious. And it's free It makes me feel very cheery - but that's just me ...

So actually it comes down to liking, and trying to justify one's likes might be very hard.

But why would one need to justify them at all? One might try to explain, but whether one succeeds depends as much on the other person's ability to comprehend as on one's powers of explanation.

In the case of pets - such as dogs, cats etc., I don't necessarily dislike them, but I don't like them enough to want to spend my time looking after them.

Yes, my brother says they're too much trouble, though they have a house cat. It's true, an owner has to take responsibility for a dog's social behaviour but not a cat's.

[kernelbogey]

...It's true, an owner has to take responsibility for a dog's social behaviour but not a cat's.

Except, in the case of my last-but-one cat, who enjoyed invading other homes, shops, offices; and I was often retrieving him from them. However, those on the end of his invasions seemed to enjoy it. This probably does not quite fall within what you meant by 'social behaviour' but I think the cat (who was well looked after, btw, by me, and slept mostly at mine) needed for some reason a wide range of human social contacts. I miss him.

[french frank]

This probably does not quite fall within what you meant by 'social behaviour'

No, I should have said 'anti-social' behaviour! At one point we were quite tolerant of a neighbour's cat stalking in and going upstairs to sleep on one of the beds. It went home to be fed. I wouldn't want a cat but I do understand that other people become very fond of their cats. Why they do so is more problematic.

[kernelbogey]

...I do understand that other people become very fond of their cats. Why they do so is more problematic.

Well, for sure a lot of anthropomorphic projection. In my cat's case, he was quite an eccentric cat. Of course I talked to him about all that....

[Serial_Apologist]

Once-smart Michael Buerk dressed in 1945-stylee demob suit advertising ridiculous commemorative coins on TV.

What a Buerk!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

No, I should have said 'anti-social' behaviour! At one point we were quite tolerant of a neighbour's cat stalking in and going upstairs to sleep on one of the beds. It went home to be fed. I wouldn't want a cat but I do understand that other people become very fond of their cats. Why they do so is more problematic.

It depends upon what the humans want. Dogs look up to their humans in general. Cats assume their superiority over humans and use them as useful servants.

[Old Grumpy]

Yes, my brother says they're too much trouble, though they have a house cat. It's true, an owner has to take responsibility for a dog's social behaviour but not a cat's.

Well, perhaps owners should have to take responsibility for the behaviour of their cat!

[gurnemanz]

Well, perhaps owners should have to take responsibility for the behaviour of their cat!

There is a new cat regularly coming into our garden. Unlike previous ones it doesn't run away as I approach to chase it away. I assume it wants to be my friend - which I might be if its purpose was not to use the garden as a toilet.

[french frank]

There is a new cat regularly coming into our garden. Unlike previous ones it doesn't run away as I approach to chase it away. I assume it wants to be my friend - which I might be if its purpose was not to use the garden as a toilet.

I had the idea of cultivating one of my visiting cats as I understand they don't foul in their 'own' garden and keep other cats out. Unfortunately, I put down cat biscuit for it and other cats came and ate them and chased my cat off.

Cats, by the way, are protected by law

[eighthobstruction]

....if we had facilities to be able make R3 orientated (musical/talky b'talk stuff)[ nothing fancy] Cat videos on this forum....it would not make me happy....

[Jonathan]

I have no problem with cats, my ex wife and I used to have two. It's dogs I have issues with since I was attacked by one on holiday years ago. I've never been happy with them anyway and now it's worse.

[french frank]

....if we had facilities to be able make R3 orientated (musical/talky b'talk stuff)[ nothing fancy] Cat videos on this forum....it would not make me happy....

I'm in family and street WhatsApp groups and at one time every other photo was of someone's cat: Jeremy, Milo, Dixie, Cheetoh, SnorkMaiden, Sheba ...

[eighthobstruction]

Oh dear just think of all that itinerant hair....what it can do if said cats spend an afternoon laying unheeded on your black/white mohair jumper (you may not have one [sic])....i just think of how many wraps around fingers of sticky tape might be needed to render said jumper (of the first part) to some level cat hairlessnessness - dab dab dab dab wonder while life is so banal....I'll say swine - because feline doesn't have the same ring....

.... I'd love to have a pet crow....