Grumble Thread

[Bryn]

Just now back from the chemist's with my regular prescription. Ramiprils? yes; Asprins? yes; Atorvastatins? "Er. we aren't handing out statins any more". WHAT!!!??? Everyone's on statins... everyone over 65's hooked on statins, I say: they've been keeping me alive for the past ten years! "I'm afraid we can't get them at those dosages... there's a shortage, nobody can". Well the solution's quite simple I said, people will just start dropping dead all over the place. That'll solve the problem. I could have asked if I could buy them over the counter, but that didn't occur to me and in any case might contravene NHS rules, I don't know. Could I get a different dosage over the counter - one where I would expect to cut each tab in half or something? Well they said I should re-contact them on Wednesday. Fortunately I am well liked at that pharmacy (unlike the nearest one just down the hill which belongs to a different chain); I am uncomfortable with blameless staff (whom I happen to like very much) taking the flak for someone else's failures - this surely being why one has been hearing of abuse targetted at pharmacy employees. But experts are insistent one should never drop any regular drug without first taking "doctor's advice". After telling them I still have 3 tabs left (it's 7 actually), I got a vague impression from whispers from the rear where they sort out the orders that they might go out of their way just to fix me.. and I'm not comfortable with that either.

https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/news/negotiators-warn-statin-shortage-is-having-serious-impact-on-pharmacies-as-price-spikes

I'm o.k. for the next 6 weeks, but then . . .

[DracoM]

Seriously worrying news! So...........subs for statins are...............?
Crikey!

[oddoneout]

More here
https://www.chemistanddruggist.co.uk...has%20revealed.
Another of those "it was known about but has not been addressed" situations, with this statement at the end by the DH sounding like a typical spokesperson deflection based on what should in theory happen rather than what is actually happening.

And they added that reimbursement arrangements, such as the medicines margin and concessionary prices, are “in place to ensure contractors are paid fairly for the medicines they dispense” and “specifically designed” to avoid them “dispensing at a loss”.

I don't think this is an isolated incident for pharmacists in terms of shortages and costs.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'll wait and see what happens on Wednesday. One of the above linked articles (for which thanks) suggests something about alternatives to atorvastatin, which I was not aware of. Perhaps best to ring the doctor for advice. Luckily I jut remembered that I have a couple of boxfuls as a legacy of the early days after my heart op in 2013 when I kept on forgetting to take the one intended for just before bedtime!

There are some as are putting forward a theory that statins don't actually do much good.

[kernelbogey]

....There are some as are putting forward a theory that statins don't actually do much good.

I had a lttle rebellion against Big Pharma last year and stopped taking my Statins and my Hypertension tabs for twelve months. In the end, after some discussions with my GP, I decided this was just self-harming behaviour on my part and went back on them both.

There is an argument - and I'm not very articulate in this kind of subject - that the reputation of statins derives from figures based on groups of research subjects: so the counter argument goes that doesn't mean individuals necessarily benefit. Put another way, because a group who all took statins had a lower incidence of high cholesterol compared with a control group, it doesn't prove that any individual in that group had their risk reduced. Statins have been a cash cow for Big Pharma, hence my (and others') scepticsm.

This shortage is a worry, nonetheless.

[Petrushka]

I'm on eye drops for glaucoma as well as atorvastatin and hypertension tablets. My eye drops must be replaced after 28 days while the tablets come in packs of 30 so, ordering them at the same time each 28 days over several years, has meant that I've had 'creep back' over time and have sufficient quantity of tablets stored to cope with any availability issues. These problems were always likely due to Brexit and here we are.

I can't do this with the eye drops, though, and any shortages there would be worrying.

[oddoneout]

I'll wait and see what happens on Wednesday. One of the above linked articles (for which thanks) suggests something about alternatives to atorvastatin, which I was not aware of. Perhaps best to ring the doctor for advice. Luckily I jut remembered that I have a couple of boxfuls as a legacy of the early days after my heart op in 2013 when I kept on forgetting to take the one intended for just before bedtime!

There are some as are putting forward a theory that statins don't actually do much good.

You might need to check the expiry dates on those boxes?

[oddoneout]

I had a lttle rebellion against Big Pharma last year and stopped taking my Statins and my Hypertension tabs for twelve months. In the end, after some discussions with my GP, I decided this was just self-harming behaviour on my part and went back on them both.

There is an argument - and I'm not very articulate in this kind of subject - that the reputation of statins derives from figures based on groups of research subjects: so the counter argument goes that doesn't mean individuals necessarily benefit. Put another way, because a group who all took statins had a lower incidence of high cholesterol compared with a control group, it doesn't prove that any individual in that group had their risk reduced. Statins have been a cash cow for Big Pharma, hence my (and others') scepticsm.

This shortage is a worry, nonetheless.

Fortunately it's not an issue I've had to address as yet, but for various reasons some years ago I did a fair amount of looking into the circumstances of the rise of statins and wasn't at all convinced by what I found out - there was rather too much fiddling to make the numbers fit the objectives among other things. The one size fits all approach (no recognition that age and sex affect what are acceptable levels of cholesterol) was another concern. In the years since I imagine(well I would hope so given how many millions have now effectively been testing them) more research has been done and perhaps it's more convincing now.

[Bryn]

https://www.bhf.org.uk/for-professionals/healthcare-professionals/blog/statins-10-facts-you-might-not-know

Sadly, nowhere in this document do they define "low-dose" or "high-dose". This, however, might help: https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/atorvas...-atorvastatin/

[Pianorak]

Having very little faith left in the medical profession I gave up on statins quite a few years ago now. Was that the reason why according to the surgeon last September my “heart had had enough”? Twenty-four hours later I left the hospital sporting a brand-new pacemaker.

I have now decided to give up omeprazole [a PPI] which I have been prescribed for at least 10 years. Today’s Guardian “. . . However, long-term use of PPIs has been linked to increased fracture risk, micronutrient deficiencies, and a heightened risk of infections, the researchers said. . .”. And yes, I have taken Turmeric for a couple of years.

[Serial_Apologist]

You might need to check the expiry dates on those boxes?

Checking up various advice sites on this it appears that drugs other than statins are ones to avoid after the expiry dates - one site claims any drugs kept safely, eg stored below 25C, seals intact, can be taken up to 15 years, which would possibly make my atorvastatins safe, while the NHS site takes the cautious route of advising official consultation without specifying products or categories. I will ask about this when I re-visit the chemist tomorrow. Meanwhile I've been checking out alternative cholesterol reducing diet recommendations and have come up with a long list of nourishing alternatives, some of which I currently have - probably most available from mainstream outlets. The main change would involve giving up or cutting right down on cheese, along with the good it does for the old bones, along with the ready-made microwaveable convenience products I've lived on through the winter half of the year for several years now, which would be a drag.

[Serial_Apologist]

Having very little faith left in the medical profession I gave up on statins quite a few years ago now. Was that the reason why according to the surgeon last September my “heart had had enough”? Twenty-four hours later I left the hospital sporting a brand-new pacemaker.

I have now decided to give up omeprazole [a PPI] which I have been prescribed for at least 10 years. Today’s Guardian “. . . However, long-term use of PPIs has been linked to increased fracture risk, micronutrient deficiencies, and a heightened risk of infections, the researchers said. . .”. And yes, I have taken Turmeric for a couple of years.

[smittims]

'...faith in the medical profession...' yes, I think many of us are feeling a decline there. I've been (touch wood) in good health for many years now and haven't needed to see a doctor, and I'm rather dreading what will happen when eventually I do.

I live within short walking distance from our medical centre and I used to just stroll in and see a friendly face and make an appointment, but from what I've heard it's become rather Kafkaesque. You have to be online, have a smartphone, have a code, do it their way or they don't want to see you: in short, another example of 'digital exclusion'.

I had hoped I would get through my remaining years without 'giving in' to this, but I can see the battle to keep 'off-line' public services is gradually being lost; a bit like living in Germany in 1944.

[eighthobstruction]

I was amazed on researching my GP Partnership to find it has a Wiki page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modality_Partnership

[french frank]

I was amazed on researching my GP Partnership to find it has a Wiki page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modality_Partnership

That's because it's a large super-practice. In other news, never mind the statins, wot about my epilepsy tablets? Not that I care: when they run out I won't have to chuck them out when I get tired of taking them