Grumble Thread

[french frank]

That's all very well if the company takes no more money than is due.

When I was paying a fixed monthly DD they were keeping a heftyish balance over the summer. But it wasn't difficult to change to a variable DD so that they just take the correct amount each month. And I keep an eye on my expenditure with my smart meter

[oddoneout]

I suppose it depends on whether you think energy supply companies should be run to make a profit or as public services. Back in the day when I worked for a nationalised energy supplier we gave a discount to customers who paid by direct debit - the reason the cost to serve of such customers was significantly less than for those on quarterly billing and payment, so it made financial sense to get as many customers as possible on monthly direct debit. Also a large majority of customers preferred that method of billing and payment.

Having to pay more because I didn't use enough electricity made it quite clear that they weren't a public service provider, it was all about profit, and as far as I could make out (their customer service wasn't much of a service either) signing up to DD wasn't going to alter that situation, so yes I'd have got a discount(for a while at least. I seem to remember, although I could be wrong, that once critical mass was reached that was dropped), but in effect not the full discount as the low user penalty still applied.

[oddoneout]

I've now switched to payment upon receipt of a quarterly bill.

I used to have a compromise whereby I got an email each quarter asking for gas/electricity meter readings which were used to calculate the bill. I would be notified of the amount and when it would be taken by DD.
When I was migrated to OVO they claimed that they couldn't do that and I would have to go on to the standard monthly DD arrangement based on their estimates and some over for the CEO slush fund I suspected. I later found out that that wasn't true - many customers had either retained the previous arrangement or had successfully asked for it. So far it hasn't been too bad - the DD amount hasn't resulted in a large amount of credit over summer 'to smooth out winter bills'(so I haven't had to try and get it refunded) and adjustments seem to be based reasonably well on what I actually use/am likely to use. Perhaps sending them meter readings periodically makes a difference after all.

[eighthobstruction]

I used to have a compromise whereby I got an email each quarter asking for gas/electricity meter readings which were used to calculate the bill. I would be notified of the amount and when it would be taken by DD.
When I was migrated to OVO they claimed that they couldn't do that and I would have to go on to the standard monthly DD arrangement based on their estimates and some over for the CEO slush fund I suspected. I later found out that that wasn't true - many customers had either retained the previous arrangement or had successfully asked for it. So far it hasn't been too bad - the DD amount hasn't resulted in a large amount of credit over summer 'to smooth out winter bills'(so I haven't had to try and get it refunded) and adjustments seem to be based reasonably well on what I actually use/am likely to use. Perhaps sending them meter readings periodically makes a difference after all.

....sending readings in response to emails monthly make large difference....do it ....if like me you are averse to Smart Meters

[antongould]

That's all very well if the company takes no more money than is due. But the trouble is ,in many cases , including mine until I stopped it, they were taking hugely more than I owed. Sme people have been paying thousands of pounds ahead of their usage. It's a racket.

Almost all suppliers now add an amount into the monthly instalment calculation to ensure the customer is always in credit - meaning each year their customers pay more in a year than the cost of their consumption. This is a rip off but Ofgem don’t seem to care.
Didn’t happen when I was a lad ….

[LMcD]

Having to pay more because I didn't use enough electricity made it quite clear that they weren't a public service provider, it was all about profit, and as far as I could make out (their customer service wasn't much of a service either) signing up to DD wasn't going to alter that situation, so yes I'd have got a discount(for a while at least. I seem to remember, although I could be wrong, that once critical mass was reached that was dropped), but in effect not the full discount as the low user penalty still applied.

I was told that I would forfeit a 7% discount by no longer paying a monthly DD, but I decided I preferred the certainty of knowing that I'd be paying for what I'd used and no more. I'd been running up credit balances in the low hundreds of pounds.

[teamsaint]

Most such "official" long term estimates assume no change in the political status quo, in my experience.

Well that is a pretty safe assumption right now , one way or another.

[Old Grumpy]

Didn’t happen when I was a lad ….

I thought direct debits were a relatively recent phenomenon...


...but I discover the concept was introduced in 1964 and they were widely established in 1970 (I were definitely a lad then!)

[Dave2002]

I'm too stupid, obviously. I have no idea what the DVLA people are doing to the car tax - which is apparently going to change from April. We have EVs, which have up to now had no tax, but we had to pay £0 each year to "tax" our vehicles.

Now they seem to have come up with a new scheme which doesn't align with the original registration dates, so maybe some people will be caught out - and I might even be one of them. I guess I'm going to have to phone DVLA to find out what we should do.

I am broadly in favour of EVs, but that still doesn't excuse what seems to be the fact that many of us who have bought EVs have been encouraged to buy them with several false promises.

[oddoneout]

I'm too stupid, obviously. I have no idea what the DVLA people are doing to the car tax - which is apparently going to change from April. We have EVs, which have up to now had no tax, but we had to pay £0 each year to "tax" our vehicles.

Now they seem to have come up with a new scheme which doesn't align with the original registration dates, so maybe some people will be caught out - and I might even be one of them. I guess I'm going to have to phone DVLA to find out what we should do.

I am broadly in favour of EVs, but that still doesn't excuse what seems to be the fact that many of us who have bought EVs have been encouraged to buy them with several false promises.

Not stupid Dave, but perhaps a touch naive to think that EVs would continue to have favourable treatment - remember there's a £22bn hole to fill somehow! The more people choose EVs the less income...

[french frank]

Not stupid Dave, but perhaps a touch naive to think that EVs would continue to have favourable treatment - remember there's a £22bn hole to fill somehow! The more people choose EVs the less income...

And when everyone has an EV there would be £0 for the government from the road tax which currently is estimated to bring in £7bn+ a year.

[Dave2002]

Not stupid Dave, but perhaps a touch naive to think that EVs would continue to have favourable treatment - remember there's a £22bn hole to fill somehow! The more people choose EVs the less income...

Absolutely - though the switch to EVs was encouraged by several things - and the encouragement was definitely supported by the UK government at the time:

1. Low tax or vehicle charges
2. Lower maintenance costs
3. Lower energy costs

Item 1 is something which the HMG should have control over, so it feels unreasonable if charges are going to go up very significantly, particularly for older vehicles.

Remember also - that much of the vehicle charges does not go directly towards transport related action and goods - which perhaps is why there are so many potholes left unfilled.

One annoyance possible annoyance is that one of the cars may be classed as a "more expensive" vehicle, and therefore the increased payment will be considerable.

I did get through to DVLA to discuss this, and it seems that contrary to what web sites such as Martin Lewis are saying, that most people will not be able to make any saving by trying to tax their EVs early.
That is only goiing to work for vehicles for which the registration/tax dates are in April, in which case it will be possible to do the tax/registration before April the 1st. That is not going to make any difference to us,
but other EV owners may find that useful to know.

The DVLA person I spoke to knew nothing about the likely charges, and it seems that there won't be anything I can do about that, apart from selling my car and switching to another one.
I don't particularly want to have to do that - though another alternative would be to resurrect the petrol car which we have SORNed - though I really don't want to do that for regular use.

Some people might want to dump their EVs and switch back to fossil fuels - something I wouldn't recommend, but others may not care and do it anyway, or they may have no alternative if the costs are going to be a problem for them.

[Dave2002]

And when everyone has an EV there would be £0 for the government from the road tax which currently is estimated to bring in £7bn+ a year.

Agreed, though it may be the case that the £7bn is currently not all spent on transport related activities. I don't know, but some driving organisations have suggested that.

What does the government need money for anyway? I think we should all be paying more tax, to support essential services, and [sadly] also defence - but it needs to be balanced.

Too much in the UK seems to be in a mess right now and despite that we must still be within the top 10-20 countries regarding wealth etc.

[Dave2002]

There is also this - but I don't know whether this contradicts the information I was given by the DVLA agent.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/everything-else/2025-03/question-of-the-week-can-i-renew-my-ev-car-tax-early-and-get-the-next-12-months-free/

[french frank]

Agreed, though it may be the case that the £7bn is currently not all spent on transport related activities. I don't know, but some driving organisations have suggested that.

Correct, in that it all goes into the general government coffers. The Treasury then allocates a sum to the DfT and a grant to local councils to be spent on whatever road/transport measures each is responsible for. Theoretically, it could, I suppose, amount to more than has been received from VED. But possibly unlikely?