Grumble Thread

[kernelbogey]

I understand there are 40 passengers and crew still in hospital with 20 still in intensive care. Its reported that 22 of the patients have spinal cord injuries and 6 have brain and skull injuries, so it is an extremely serious case.

The safety information card, in my experience, usually recommends always keeping your seat belt fastened while seated, and I always do so.

[Serial_Apologist]

I believe the Singaporean authorities have begun an investigation to discover how and why this flight experienced such extreme turbulence, but it may take some time to find everything out.

Pilots do already have a number of measures they can take to spot and avoid turbulence including the use of on board radar to monitor local weather systems. However turbulence can be unpredictable, especially clear-air turbulence, so while aircraft can usually avoid and deal with most incidents of turbulence, this is not 100% reliable. Clear-air turbulence is usually impossible to detect with the naked eye as it is not the result of local cloud or storm conditions. It is also very difficult to detect with a conventional radar. This makes it difficult for aircraft pilots to detect and avoid it.

It is suspected that this case may be a result of clear-air turbulence, but we should know more once the Singaporeans have completed their investigation. I'd agree with you that if it turns out to be the result of negligence or inadequate training, then action should be taken against those responsible.

By the way, I understand there are 40 passengers and crew still in hospital with 20 still in intensive care. Its reported that 22 of the patients have spinal cord injuries and 6 have brain and skull injuries, so it is an extremely serious case.

First news reports stated that there had been thunderstorms in the area, and that was the assumption I had based the turbulence on. Thanks for your reply.

[LHC]

First news reports stated that there had been thunderstorms in the area, and that was the assumption I had based the turbulence on. Thanks for your reply.

You might find this article in the Guardian giving more information on turbulence interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/27/what-causes-turbulence-on-flights-and-which-routes-around-the-world-are-most-affected

[Serial_Apologist]

You might find this article in the Guardian giving more information on turbulence interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-most-affected

[Pulcinella]

Filling in an online booking form (for an ear microsuction appointment) yesterday I ran across two required fields that seemed unnecessary and another problem.
First of all, the phone number was not in the required format (though I wasn't told what that was); then I needed both an Address second line and a Region.
OK, the region here is North Yorkshire (but that seemed overkill), but a second line in the address?
The area of York I live in doesn't particularly need an area in its postal address, and I'm sure many other properties elsewhere don't either.
Because I didn't want to be bombed out of the booking (or have payment refused as the adreess didn't match that for my credit card, if checks are at that level of detail) I rang for advice.
I was told to put York in twice.


Does anybody actually check the systems they impose on users?
This might explain the peculiar addresses I sometimes see on envelopes/parcels I get: either the house number on a line of its own or a duplication of the sort I was recommended to use.

[Serial_Apologist]

My grumble for today is the number of hand-pumped household products, i.e. for cleaning sprays, where the pump action does not work or gives up after a few uses. Frequently these days said products have the pump action end encased in some sort of cardboard "protection" preventing testing prior to purchasing. What was introduced presumably as a replacement for ozone-emitting spray cans too often turns out not to have been properly checked at the factory, so one now finds oneself having either to try refitting used pumps from old dispensers one is forced to hoard for re-use on new ones or transferring contents into the old containers - an annoyance, particularly when quantities exceed capacity.

[Pulcinella]

My grumble for today is the number of hand-pumped household products, i.e. for cleaning sprays, where the pump action does not work or gives up after a few uses. Frequently these days said products have the pump action end encased in some sort of cardboard "protection" preventing testing prior to purchasing. What was introduced presumably as a replacement for ozone-emitting spray cans too often turns out not to have been properly checked at the factory, so one now finds oneself having either to try refitting used pumps from old dispensers one is forced to hoard for re-use on new ones or transferring contents into the old containers - an annoyance, particularly when quantities exceed capacity.

And the metal trigger mechanism component means that the whole thing cannot be recycled simply as plastic.
We are lucky here in having a centre nearby that takes them.

[oddoneout]

My grumble for today is the number of hand-pumped household products, i.e. for cleaning sprays, where the pump action does not work or gives up after a few uses. Frequently these days said products have the pump action end encased in some sort of cardboard "protection" preventing testing prior to purchasing. What was introduced presumably as a replacement for ozone-emitting spray cans too often turns out not to have been properly checked at the factory, so one now finds oneself having either to try refitting used pumps from old dispensers one is forced to hoard for re-use on new ones or transferring contents into the old containers - an annoyance, particularly when quantities exceed capacity.

What I hate about those is even more basic than that - why everything is now in one of those wasteful(can't spray to the end, there's always some left), environmentally unjustifiable(mixed components means I suspect the majority end up in landfill) containers - so that finding just a simple bottle of product is impossible, or if available seems to be more expensive than the eco-disaster version. As most such products I find irritants(nose, eyes and throat) the last thing I want is a spray to create an aerosol that magnifies the irritant effect
Luckily I a) don't have the need for the majority of such products* and b) have a refill shop in town for things I do need/use.

*And no, lest you were wondering, that doesn't mean I don't clean!

[antongould]

….. Does anybody actually check the systems they impose on users?
.

A very fair question given the Horizon debacle ….. I spent a large part of my working life implementing IT systems and testing was always a very important part of the process ….the programmers carried out their own testing and then handed it over for system testing and if it passed finally we had user testing when the staff who were to use the system tested it …..

The way things seem to be nowadays it would seem this is not always happening ….

[Gargoyle]

Grumble - why do my heroes always seem to have clay feet?

Will they sack Francois-Xavier Roth?

[oddoneout]

A very fair question given the Horizon debacle ….. I spent a large part of my working life implementing IT systems and testing was always a very important part of the process ….the programmers carried out their own testing and then handed it over for system testing and if it passed finally we had user testing when the staff who were to use the system tested it …..

The way things seem to be nowadays it would seem this is not always happening ….

Now they get the customers(clueless/ ignorant/susceptible to sales pitches) to do the testing for them by selling a beta version and waiting for the problems to be reported... And I suspect there is also a fairly large helping of "other users don't experience these problems" still served up.

[Dave2002]

Not sure if this is a Grumble, a Pedant posting, or a Funny thing.

I've just received a black-tie dinner invitation including the following:

There will be a drinks reception ... at 6.45pm and dinner will be served in Hall at 7.30pm.

Carriages will be at 10.30pm.

Isn't it about time that the ridiculous conception/convention of Carriages got ditched?
What's wrong with simply saying that the event will finish at 10:30pm?

Also amusing is going to some naval establishments - after a Request the Pleasure of Your Company.

"Would you like to go ashore sir? Shall I call you a launch?"

A short while later a black taxi will arrive.

[antongould]

Lady Gould with an eye for a sound investment decided to follow the advice of Saint Martin Lewis and the Sunday Times Money, who with other newspapers lauded HMRC's new online system for identifying gaps in your National Insurance record and paying them, thus increasing your state pension. It would seem from Lady Telfer's trauma that they couldn't be bothered to check the system. I have detailed what we found in this email to the Sunday Times, I have found it is pointless emailing St. Martin's set up.



Good Afternoon,
On 5 May 2024 you printed an article with thet title "Why It Just Got Easier To Top Up Your State Pension", which contained the following, “Under the new online system most people … can work out whether filling in gaps is worthwhile … through the gov.uk website or HMRC app. You can pay voluntary national insurance contributions online …. without needing to speak to someone on the phone.”
Can I ask if you tested this assertion before printing it …. ????; From my wife’s experience it would seem not.
She took your advice and went through the new online system, all was very straightforward and worked well until, having chosen her option she went to the payments screen, here was displayed “Sorry we’re experiencing technical difficulties - Please try again in a few minutes.” It has been this way for over a fortnight so in complete frustration we contacted HMRC Future Pension Centre by phone.
After a 20 minute wait I spoke to a helpful young man and explained our problem and frustration - he seemed vaguely aware of the message but said he could undertake the process for us. He agreed the maximum pension that my wife could receive as shown on the online system BUT GAVE US A LARGER PAYMENT REQUIRED THAN THE ONLINE SYSTEM!!!! When I asked what we should do he said it was up to us which figure to pay but he wasn’t sure if the online system payment would generate the maximum figure.
We said we wished to pay the online figure, so he said OK but he’d have to put me through to someone else “for payment”. I then spoke to a young lady who explained they didn’t take payment over the phone we would have to do it by bank transfer and gave us the sort code and account number required. I asked how it would get to my wife’s account and she said we would have to enter as a reference an eighteen digit number we had to be sure to enter correctly! When I asked if we would get confirmation the payment had been received, she replied no - my wife would have to keep checking online to see if her pension entitlement had changed and if and when it did that would mean they had received and correctly allocated the money. But this would take up to eight weeks!, however we could ring up after 2/3 weeks and they should then be able to advise whether they had received the money.
So we have a very far from efficient process and your article is currently very misleading.

[oddoneout]

Lady Gould with an eye for a sound investment decided to follow the advice of Saint Martin Lewis and the Sunday Times Money, who with other newspapers lauded HMRC's new online system for identifying gaps in your National Insurance record and paying them, thus increasing your state pension. It would seem from Lady Telfer's trauma that they couldn't be bothered to check the system. I have detailed what we found in this email to the Sunday Times, I have found it is pointless emailing St. Martin's set up.



Good Afternoon,
On 5 May 2024 you printed an article with thet title "Why It Just Got Easier To Top Up Your State Pension", which contained the following, “Under the new online system most people … can work out whether filling in gaps is worthwhile … through the gov.uk website or HMRC app. You can pay voluntary national insurance contributions online …. without needing to speak to someone on the phone.”
Can I ask if you tested this assertion before printing it …. ????; From my wife’s experience it would seem not.
She took your advice and went through the new online system, all was very straightforward and worked well until, having chosen her option she went to the payments screen, here was displayed “Sorry we’re experiencing technical difficulties - Please try again in a few minutes.” It has been this way for over a fortnight so in complete frustration we contacted HMRC Future Pension Centre by phone.
After a 20 minute wait I spoke to a helpful young man and explained our problem and frustration - he seemed vaguely aware of the message but said he could undertake the process for us. He agreed the maximum pension that my wife could receive as shown on the online system BUT GAVE US A LARGER PAYMENT REQUIRED THAN THE ONLINE SYSTEM!!!! When I asked what we should do he said it was up to us which figure to pay but he wasn’t sure if the online system payment would generate the maximum figure.
We said we wished to pay the online figure, so he said OK but he’d have to put me through to someone else “for payment”. I then spoke to a young lady who explained they didn’t take payment over the phone we would have to do it by bank transfer and gave us the sort code and account number required. I asked how it would get to my wife’s account and she said we would have to enter as a reference an eighteen digit number we had to be sure to enter correctly! When I asked if we would get confirmation the payment had been received, she replied no - my wife would have to keep checking online to see if her pension entitlement had changed and if and when it did that would mean they had received and correctly allocated the money. But this would take up to eight weeks!, however we could ring up after 2/3 weeks and they should then be able to advise whether they had received the money.
So we have a very far from efficient process and your article is currently very misleading.

Speaking as one with something like 10 years of making such payments, during which time there were a few glitches, most of which occurred in the most recent years, I would make a couple of observations from my experience, which may or may not be relevant. The system may work better now but of the final two payments I sent, about a week apart, in early 2019, one appeared in my record after about 6 weeks, the other took nearer 6 months, despite the fact I could see from my bank statements that both payments had gone through; I was on the point of taking on the herculean (and potentially expensive if done by phone) task of chasing up the missing payment when it finally showed in my record. The other matter was one I am still very suspicious about, and involved a year which showed as paid for several years and then suddenly showed as not paid in full, too late to pay, and so not counting towards state pension. As I don't receive a full SP and the figures on the letter telling you how much you will get don't show in full(ie how many years contribution it is based on)how it is calculated, I didn't realise I was being shortchanged when I started receiving it in 2021. It was only because for some reason I decided to do a final check of my record that I noticed the gap. A combination of my tendency to keep papers for years and avoidance of digital payments unless forced meant I was able to muster not only 2 of the HMRC statements they used to send out every few years, but also bank statements and cheque stubs, all of which showed that the payment had been made - back in 2013! I wrote a(fairly pointed) letter enclosing photocopies of all the relevant bits of paper; needless to say I never had a specific reply but in due course had a generic "we have made an adjustment to your payments" letter, with a revised weekly amount to include the "missing" year, and also a back payment of the shortfall. That was their (only)admission there had been a mistake, and of course no apology or explanation.
I don't know whether it still applies but some of my catch-up years were at different(lower) NI rates, due to political decisions(buying votes), and in some cases that made a year significantly less costly compared with the standard rate, so I prioritised them rather than going through in straight chronological order.

[antongould]

Speaking as one with something like 10 years of making such payments, during which time there were a few glitches, most of which occurred in the most recent years, I would make a couple of observations from my experience, which may or may not be relevant. The system may work better now but of the final two payments I sent, about a week apart, in early 2019, one appeared in my record after about 6 weeks, the other took nearer 6 months, despite the fact I could see from my bank statements that both payments had gone through; I was on the point of taking on the herculean (and potentially expensive if done by phone) task of chasing up the missing payment when it finally showed in my record. The other matter was one I am still very suspicious about, and involved a year which showed as paid for several years and then suddenly showed as not paid in full, too late to pay, and so not counting towards state pension. As I don't receive a full SP and the figures on the letter telling you how much you will get don't show in full(ie how many years contribution it is based on)how it is calculated, I didn't realise I was being shortchanged when I started receiving it in 2021. It was only because for some reason I decided to do a final check of my record that I noticed the gap. A combination of my tendency to keep papers for years and avoidance of digital payments unless forced meant I was able to muster not only 2 of the HMRC statements they used to send out every few years, but also bank statements and cheque stubs, all of which showed that the payment had been made - back in 2013! I wrote a(fairly pointed) letter enclosing photocopies of all the relevant bits of paper; needless to say I never had a specific reply but in due course had a generic "we have made an adjustment to your payments" letter, with a revised weekly amount to include the "missing" year, and also a back payment of the shortfall. That was their (only)admission there had been a mistake, and of course no apology or explanation.
I don't know whether it still applies but some of my catch-up years were at different(lower) NI rates, due to political decisions(buying votes), and in some cases that made a year significantly less costly compared with the standard rate, so I prioritised them rather than going through in straight chronological order.

Thanks OOO ….. seems to have been a disaster for years and yet the silver bullet of the new system doesn’t seem to work yet …. but like our Horizon discussions…. was this system tested properly???? I think I know the answer …