Grumble Thread

[Dave2002]

Dave, I agree wholeheartedly. I think technology has gone too far too quickly and the cracks are showing. We need to take a step back for a while and re-think a lot of things . I've gone back to playing gramophone records and using a manual coffee-grinder, so Im doing my bit!

The thing that really gets me about some of the complications re passwords etc. is the comment that “we need to do this to protect you.” Sure - there may be an element of that - but more often I think it’s about tracking me and my devices. For example with 2nd factor identification, network systems track not just one device but two, and presumably me also to boot. Do I trust Google, or Apple, or Microsoft or Amazon Web Services? Not. a lot!

[LMcD]

Dave, I agree wholeheartedly. I think technology has gone too far too quickly and the cracks are showing. We need to take a step back for a while and re-think a lot of things . I've gone back to playing gramophone records and using a manual coffee-grinder, so Im doing my bit!

Don't worry - AI will do the re-thinking for you, if it hasn't already started.

[Dave2002]

Don't worry - AI will do the re-thinking for you, if it hasn't already started.

AI “tools” such as bard [now aka gemini] are sometimes very useful and give fast “answers”. Trouble is that it is often easy enough to see that they are wrong - though even getting a wrong “answer” - as long as we know that those are incorrect - can be a useful spur to finding a good or better or maybe even a “correct” one. Some people, sadly, will believe the wrong ones.

[oddoneout]

AI “tools” such as bard [now aka gemini] are sometimes very useful and give fast “answers”. Trouble is that it is often easy enough to see that they are wrong - though even getting a wrong “answer” - as long as we know that those are incorrect - can be a useful spur to finding a good or better or maybe even a “correct” one. Some people, sadly, will believe the wrong ones.

Don't need AI for that! I've mentioned elsewhere that looking up travel information has thrown up some "interesting" answers, the best one to date being that I can travel by train from my hometown to the city(complete with departure times), when the last passenger train was 1969. Several other responses were not correct, and also some bus ones as well, but not by such a big margin - but if I didn't know the area that could cause problems, at least initially.
Another one I discovered a few days ago was a list of call charges on the Ofcom site which listed Post Office as a provider, despite that branch of the business having been sold to Shell several years ago.
Yes, the errors would become apparent on further searching - but what if further searches weren't done or needed - that misinformation would remain with the person who made the search.
My local council has recently announced that it is using AI to answer certain phone calls. It's been trialled on the website apparently, which is all well and good, but I wonder if it has been taught the local dialect, which can cause issues when conversing...

[Dave2002]

Don't need AI for that! I've mentioned elsewhere that looking up travel information has thrown up some "interesting" answers, the best one to date being that I can travel by train from my hometown to the city(complete with departure times), when the last passenger train was 1969. Several other responses were not correct, and also some bus ones as well, but not by such a big margin - but if I didn't know the area that could cause problems, at least initially.
Another one I discovered a few days ago was a list of call charges on the Ofcom site which listed Post Office as a provider, despite that branch of the business having been sold to Shell several years ago.
Yes, the errors would become apparent on further searching - but what if further searches weren't done or needed - that misinformation would remain with the person who made the search.
My local council has recently announced that it is using AI to answer certain phone calls. It's been trialled on the website apparently, which is all well and good, but I wonder if it has been taught the local dialect, which can cause issues when conversing...

Outsourcing _ which may in some countries now be less popular - has led to some “interesting” “help” - presumably even without AI. I recall several requests for help to travel by train round London - with a “5 minute change” … “you just walk across the platform”. No - we said to the man presumably several thousand miles away - we have to take an underground train or bus -at least half an hour - to get to the other station. "No” - it’s showing on my screens as possible - says the man, but we say “No - we know the area, and sorry, but your screens and data sources are wrong”.

On the other hand there was a day when the trains were disrupted, no information at the stations, but the very remote person said “I can see the problem, there’s a broken down train between where you are and one of the other stations up your line.”

[LMcD]

Smart meter saga update - it turns out that my smart electricity meter is working and sending British Gas readings but my 'not so smart' gas meter isn't, so I still need to crawl under the stairs in order to take a reading and send it to them. My subsequent complaint to the Complaints Management Team highlights this issue and also points out that I seem to have run up a very large credit balance which should at least be substantially reduced by reducing my monthly payments or through a refund into my bank account, especially as Spring is on the way!

[oddoneout]

This seems relevant in view of some of the recent posts...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/picture/2024/feb/24/theres-an-app-for-that-send-help-edith-pritchett-cartoon

[oddoneout]

Well today I have had my own experience of the world of customer disservice. I went to Argos to buy a battery charger, and intended to use some of my Nectar points balance to pay for it, at least in part. Unfortunately when my card was swiped it said there weren't any points to use, which was a surprise as in November when I had shopped in Sainsbury's the assistant had mentioned that I had a large balance and did I want to use any of it for my shopping.
When I got home(with the charger having been paid for in full) I tried to access my Nectar account and couldn't, another surprise as it had worked not that long ago when I had first looked into a replacement battery charger. Having supplied my email address to get in this time I was disconcerted to get an email message saying "Looks like you have a Sainsbury's Groceries account" and wanting me to link my Nectar account with it. I don't have accounts with shops and have only visited JS about 3 times in the last 5 years so abandoned that line of enquiry and resorted to the telephone option, not something I could do during the week due to cost as it's not a freephone number(few are these days I think?). After two exchanges and going in ever decreasing circles of frustration and incomprehension( outsourced to India) I gave up on that approach, although I did find out that the points don't expire(which I thought might be the reason for the disappearance) but the account gets closed if it isn't used within certain timeframes - which I did not know so couldn't have acted on. However I had had points added in November last year from the JS visit, and the till receipt shows the balance, which means the account was still live then.
So, plunge into the (to me)unknown, and embark on the live chat option. It was slow but seemed to be making some progress(and at least reading is easier than trying to make out a heavily accented voice speaking far too quickly), until we got to the point of wanting me to send a photo of the till receipt or copy of the electronic version showing the disputed/disappeared balance. After a bit of to and fro - there isn't an alternative it seems - it was left with the direction to get someone else to provide a picture from their mobile to download to my PC. As that couldn't be done there and then(lack of family/friend to hand) it will have to wait until next week(the service isn't available on Sundays), and will also mean starting a new live chat. I'll get the scanner fired up to get an image to send, but whether it gets me any further forward remains to be seen. What I find tiresome is that all the relevant information to answer my query, and deal with the problem, already exists, somewhere(my card number still comes up with my account on their screens, and shows the points added from today's Argos purchase, so it hasn't been closed has it?) but for whatever reason cannot be accessed or used to provide information to resolve the issue. I'm not happy at having no record of today's live chat - there are ways I believe to do so but I don't have that knowledge, so have to trust(hah!) that the assurances given about notes being made at their end are correct and will work.

One thing that did amuse me was that "Aquib" wrote "take a photo of your mobile", rather than "with". An image of my 10 year old Nokia dumbphone wouldn't have got things very far methinks...

[Serial_Apologist]

Hard luck Odders. Another aspect I usually find of live query chats is that the person at the call centre usually uses a lot of incomprehensible computer jargon and speaks very quietly against a backdrop of loud office noise. As it happens I never use "loyalty cards", hating being tracked for my purchasing patterns, and when asked why at checkout I say "It's against my religion", which of course settles the matter because shop staff are probably told to read customer remarks literally to avoid upsetting "sensibilities".

[Dave2002]

This seems relevant in view of some of the recent posts...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/picture/2024/feb/24/theres-an-app-for-that-send-help-edith-pritchett-cartoon

Love it.

Follow up to recent comments re playing music on an iPad. Bus trip back was not fun. I could read a book - using the Kindle app on my iPad Pro. There was no wifi on the bus - but that was OK as the book I was reading was already downloaded into the local library on my iPad. After a couple of hours I got bored with reading. Then I tried to listen to music. Didn't work. Kept asking to be connected to the internet, yet AFAIK all the data exists on the iPad. On return home checked again, and the music plays almost instantly - out ot several attempts from a large library. So I suspect that there is a [to me completely unwanted] step which "requires" the internet to confirm that I'm actually "allowed" to play the music files which exist on my machine, and were paid for years ago.

Not amused!

[LMcD]

Hard luck Odders. Another aspect I usually find of live query chats is that the person at the call centre usually uses a lot of incomprehensible computer jargon and speaks very quietly against a backdrop of loud office noise. As it happens I never use "loyalty cards", hating being tracked for my purchasing patterns, and when asked why at checkout I say "It's against my religion", which of course settles the matter because shop staff are probably told to read customer remarks literally to avoid upsetting "sensibilities".

During my recent live chat with British Gas - a conversation which I terminated once it was clear that it was going to be a waste of time - I was assured that 'the meters is (sic) working fine'.. Apparently BG have a 'server issue', which they're 'seeking to resolve', with the gas meter under the stairs but not with the electricity meter on the wall next to the bathroom.

[eighthobstruction]

....I was thinking that perhaps my TV needed re-auto tuning as a couple of channels were missing (once an easy 2-3 click box task)....No no....what ever now controls my TV box cannot believe I do not have direct internet TV with passwords, or in fact that my TV is 10 yrs old etc (I'm cutting long story short)....finally I found a way through the menus to another menu (the old menu)

[Dave2002]

....I was thinking that perhaps my TV needed re-auto tuning as a couple of channels were missing (once an easy 2-3 click box task)....No no....what ever now controls my TV box cannot believe I do not have direct internet TV with passwords, or in fact that my TV is 10 yrs old etc (I'm cutting long story short)....finally I found a way through the menus to another menu (the old menu)

You have to be reported to the anti-commerce police for even trying to use something that's more than 5 years old. As for sustainable living - nobody wants that!

[Serial_Apologist]

You have to be reported to the anti-commerce police for even trying to use something that's more than 5 years old. As for sustainable living - nobody wants that!

Have to say you rather stole my thunder there, Dave!

[oddoneout]

....I was thinking that perhaps my TV needed re-auto tuning as a couple of channels were missing (once an easy 2-3 click box task)....No no....what ever now controls my TV box cannot believe I do not have direct internet TV with passwords, or in fact that my TV is 10 yrs old etc (I'm cutting long story short)....finally I found a way through the menus to another menu (the old menu)

That's something I dread having to do - the process invariably gets stuck at '42% complete' and it takes an awful lot of faffing to deal with the subsequent complete blockage of any viewing, and even when finally unbunged I am still left with channels that can't be accessed. However the digibox is ancient - a forced purchase when the supposedly "switchover ready" earlier box turned out not to be, in 2011. The TV is prehistoric, so between them it is a continuing surprise that I get to watch anything.
That the box hasn't been on this weekend has nothing to do with the hardware and control systems though, ironically, but the lack of anything I even vaguely felt I wanted to watch.