May is nearly out and so is May

[french frank]

Quick US-UK Deal

an article from "TV Trump"

Two months is a long time in politics!

[Serial_Apologist]

yes that's a very sophisticated ceramic method of dealing with a touch of the Brancuzzis'....

And there's me thinking oval toilet bowls have always been that shape for a good reason. Wouldn't one be in danger of catching ones calves on the corners of rectangular loos?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Wouldn't one be in danger of catching ones calves on the corners of rectangular loos?

You keep your cattle in your bathroom?! Eeeeeeeeeeee there's posh!

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks for the clarification, doversoul... I've always been unsure about what is "allowable", as comments on Brexit etc do crop up on other threads now and then, without immediate (or even later) removal.

But is Brexit essentially Party Political? Surely not, even if it has in some ways become a - in civil terms, tragic - story about divided and factionalised party politics.
If there is any possible way ahead it must be through middle-ground discussions from all sides of the argument, which seem a distant possibility now in Westminster or the UK generally, but one which something like this forum could have attempted (well sometimes has, until...).
(Citizens' Assemblies!).
If it can't, well.... but of course I wouldn't try to push it.

I always felt that you can't divide "the Life from the Art", whether in individuals or nations.

I would just add that - if someone starts a thread like this (with genuine goodwill & openminded intellectual curiosity) and it is deemed "impermissible", there are more dignified ways of expressing that (or simply removing it with a brief explanation) than irrelevant or trivialising jokes and puns.

I did make a pun out of previous posts in my #5, then straightaway in #6 gave what I think was a constructive, non-hectoring contribution, which tried to put brexit into a broader context than the prevailing nationalist agenda otherwise threatens to dictate, whether you agree with my point of view or not. I do also agree that the whole thing about brexit/remain is that it falls outside the "party political", and is therefore worthy of inclusion for discussion on this forum - especially in view of the likely consequences of brexit on everything else we do discuss here.

[doversoul1]

Well I did feel it trivialised it I'm afraid - that was my point.
A few weeks ago a lengthy Sibelius piece of mine was sidetracked from the start, by comments mocking the larger typeface I'd used (to help reading a longer piece).

You just have to accept that that is part and parcel of online forums.

Serial_Apologist

I do also agree that the whole thing about brexit/remain is that it falls outside the "party political", and is therefore worthy of inclusion for discussion on this forum - especially in view of the likely consequences of brexit on everything else we do discuss here

.
Isn’t it because, so far, the current political parties have failed to solve the issue?

I suppose it can be discussed on the Ideas and theories board as, say, the question of nationhood in the modern political theories or something in that way.

[burning dog]

Two months is a long time in politics!

but the blink of an eye in trade negotiations

[MrGongGong]

but the blink of an eye in trade negotiations

It's a peculiarly British obsession to think that everything is about "trade"

[french frank]

It's a peculiarly British obsession to think that everything is about "trade"

We get dragged into that debate. For me trade is completely unimportant I "don't care" about trade. But I have to recognise that for many people their jobs and livelihoods depend on it, so I have to support them. And that's not dependent upon them supporting what is important to me, unfortunately - because my job and livelihood aren't affected. Other than possibly not being able to get French cheese and fruit.

[gurnemanz]

It's a peculiarly British obsession to think that everything is about "trade"

Matt Hancock was on Today Programme this morning talking about being honest about "trade-offs". I assume this is what most people call compromise. Accepting something bad to clinch a deal. He seemed to have little to offer and relished a platitude. "I believe from the bottom of my heart that we need a leader for the future, not just for now."

There would seem to be a strong possibility that the Brexit curse which has now claimed two Tory leaders in less than three years would soon see off the next one as as well.

[burning dog]

It's a peculiarly British obsession to think that everything is about "trade"

Not ONLY British I think. Trump seems obsessed with it as he's tried to start trade disputes with many US allies as well as rivals like China. Quite a few Brexiteers don't seem to think "it's mostly about trade." a lot of emotional "We can go it alone", and "It was better in the old days" not specifically about trade.

[burning dog]

We get dragged into that debate. For me trade is completely unimportant I "don't care" about trade. But I have to recognise that for many people their jobs and livelihoods depend on it, so I have to support them. And that's not dependent upon them supporting what is important to me, unfortunately - because my job and livelihood aren't affected. Other than possibly not being able to get French cheese and fruit.

You may care about some invisible trade, free movement of students to be educated in other countries, even tours by Symphony Orchestras
cold be regarded as such, though we might regard them as cultural exchanges. I'm not sure how these will be affected in the long run. How much does anyone know?

Student exchanges in no-deal Brexit threat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47131426

[burning dog]

This is interesting, coincides with my experience of dealing with the elderly ie. those brought up during the war rather than "boomers" of which I am one of the younger members, Some of these older Leftist types don't like the EU for other reasons but understand the pacific intentions. I always suspected this was common but its the first research that appears to confirm it


Britain’s wartime generation are almost as pro-EU as millennials

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/04/05/britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/

"One explanation for these results is that the war generation give a premium to the pacific benefits of European institutions. Having experienced first-hand the horrors of war, they place a high value on the founding principles of unity that the EU promotes."

[burning dog]

Speech promoting European Unity

https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/102675

For hundreds of years the peoples of Britain have been writing history. Do we want future generations to continue to write history or are they simply going to have to read it.

If we fail, they will read how we broke faith with both the present and the past.

If we fail and the British people vote ‘No’ to the European Community, they will read how there was a defeat for co-operation between nations, and how there was a victory for the tribunes of the Left.

They will read how extremism won over commonsense. For it is purely common sense to belong to a community working together in peace on economic and political issues that concern us all.

It is purely commonsense to have access to secure sources of food supplies, when as a nation we have to import half our food.

It is surely commonsense to belong to the Community that is the largest trading and aiding unit in the world, and play our part in that Community.

It is surely commonsense for Britain to continue to play a part in the Council of Europe.

It is purely commonsense that we should now listen also to the Commonwealth—those Nations who twice this century, have come to Britain's aid to defend democracy in Europe.

Not one of them now want us to leave. The Commonwealth wants us to stay in. Britain has made a vital contribution to the past. She has a contribution to make to the future. It will be bigger in Europe than alone.

[LMcD]

I come into that group, and am also wary of online exchanges(here and elsewhere) when strong and opposing feelings are involved as the possibility of misunderstandings or intolerance calling down unpleasant responses(and no I don't mean ones I don't agree with) is high.

I find a kind of grim humour, which may occasionally result in some low-level punnery, quite a good way of coping with Br*x*t which, let's face it, is gonna be around for a long, long time - possibly for ever. You can check out any time you like but you can never leave …..

[cloughie]

Really what has happened re Brexit, you could never make it up. I question all these self righteous politicians who say it would be betraying the electorate who had democratically voted to leave. If that were the case itvwould have been sorted long ago. Lust for power has overtaken all that and thus the mess we are in, and the cowardly bully boys are winning and the electorate will, whatever the outcome, be paying!