May is nearly out and so is May

[french frank]

Be a long time before I start one of these again...

Well, it did verge on the impermissible. I think that might have been why people piled in with the irrelevancies

And as vinteuil said. Feelings are too deeply held for here.

[burning dog]

May's resignation doesn't alter the arithmetic of the House of Commons. All I've got to say

[jayne lee wilson]

Well, it did verge on the impermissible. I think that might have been why people piled in with the irrelevancies

And as vinteuil said. Feelings are too deeply held for here.

Impermissible?! Really?! Even now...?!
Things have moved on and very quickly (as I'm sure TS well realises...huge respect to him...)

Jeepers.....poor old FoR3....
But if that is how most feel here... OK, I accept it...

[french frank]

All I will, say is that this forum is not really the place for such strongly held views. Yesterday a couple of people said things that had me incensed. I wrote a long diatribe explaining why the truth was very far from what they seemed to believe.

I deleted it and posted a link to the facts.

I deleted the whole post because, as human beings, we all get ideas engraved on our brains and it's no use trying to persuade intelligent people that they have the facts muddled up. Hence the state the country is in.

[jayne lee wilson]

Agreed

Anyway - the resignation wont alter the arithmetic of the House of Commons

Absolutely - but the Brexit Party's percentages in the EU Elections (results Sunday) could lead to some very dangerous deal-making behind the scenes, re. ERG/1922 and associated Tory leadership (PM!) candidates...

That's why I was so keen to cast a tactical (LIBDEM) vote locally.... we have truly reached a critical moment here, for the UK/England present and future.

But of course I get the problem about discussing these things. Just felt it needed comment... of some kind at least.

[burning dog]

I appreciate what you say about deal making in response to the Brexit Party showing, but a hard core no-deal leadership may - should! - unite the dealers, second referendumers and hardcore remainers in opposition.

A no-deal would be a real problem for Ireland as a whole. Can't see how leaving the customs union will have have anything but a terrible effect on Ireland both sides of the border. i have family connections in Belfast (Catholic) and they have no strong feelings anymore about a united Ireland ("Kicked into the long grass" a my "Uncle" put it) but are dreading a no-deal.

[eighthobstruction]

.

jayne : it may be that others here are just as alert to the 'politically momentous events' as you are, but choose not to share their despair and sense of impotent rage on these boards. I have found this thread entertaining...

.

Yeah haven't you had enough of the same sound bites tripped out again and again....,.the bit where she is moved to sob....the previous 6mmonths that I have intensely processed the news evenrts etc etc etc....of course you jayne , well what....what did you expect people to say/write....editorials??? fit for you to read!!!....daaaaaaa

[oddoneout]

jayne : it may be that others here are just as alert to the 'politically momentous events' as you are, but choose not to share their despair and sense of impotent rage on these boards.

I come into that group, and am also wary of online exchanges(here and elsewhere) when strong and opposing feelings are involved as the possibility of misunderstandings or intolerance calling down unpleasant responses(and no I don't mean ones I don't agree with) is high.

[doversoul1]

Changes for 2015: As the Politics and Current Affairs board has now been closed, political topics will be allowed only at the discretion of the Moderators. These should not relate to party politics. News items which relate to music or the arts may be discussed on an appropriate board (for example, Talking About Music or The General Arts). Ideas & Theory is available for political discussion on a more general level. Anything that amounts, formally or informally, to party political campaigning (for or against) is currently disallowed.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?2957-Terms-and-Conditions

We had more than enough about the matter then. You/we can say ‘don’t read the thread if you don’t like the subject’ but I don’t think a forum like this works that way. When we start a discussion, we tend to assume that everyone will agree with us and we’ll be lamenting or being angry together but again, online forums don't work like that and things can get pretty unpleasant. I think some personal thoughts and ideas should be kept out of this forum.

[french frank]

when strong and opposing feelings are involved as the possibility of misunderstandings or intolerance calling down unpleasant responses (and no I don't mean ones I don't agree with) is high.

I think a lot is quite unconscious but, online, strongly held views simply come over as strident, stating incontrovertible truths. I often feel that when I agree with someone, I do wish they hadn't expressed themselves quite so unpleasantly. And that they would sometimes listen a bit more carefully.

Politics are banned from many, many forums for precisely this reason: they encourage a soapbox mentality where people feel they just want to HAVE THEIR SAY (as is their RIGHT) rather than have a thoughtful discussion. And some topics don't lend themselves to thoughtful discussion where people genuinely want to hear the other point of view.

[jayne lee wilson]

Thanks for the clarification, doversoul... I've always been unsure about what is "allowable", as comments on Brexit etc do crop up on other threads now and then, without immediate (or even later) removal.

But is Brexit essentially Party Political? Surely not, even if it has in some ways become a - in civil terms, tragic - story about divided and factionalised party politics.
If there is any possible way ahead it must be through middle-ground discussions from all sides of the argument, which seem a distant possibility now in Westminster or the UK generally, but one which something like this forum could have attempted (well sometimes has, until...).
(Citizens' Assemblies!).
If it can't, well.... but of course I wouldn't try to push it.

I always felt that you can't divide "the Life from the Art", whether in individuals or nations.

I would just add that - if someone starts a thread like this (with genuine goodwill & openminded intellectual curiosity) and it is deemed "impermissible", there are more dignified ways of expressing that (or simply removing it with a brief explanation) than irrelevant or trivialising jokes and puns.

[french frank]

I would just add that - if someone starts a thread like this (with genuine goodwill & openminded intellectual curiosity) and it is deemed "impermissible", there are more dignified ways of expressing that (or simply removing it with a brief explanation) than irrelevant or trivialising jokes and puns.

Two points, the words 'impermissible' or to be more accurate 'verging on the impermissible' was simply referring to what doversoul has just quoted.

What you call 'jokes and puns' were, I think, only the usual forum veering away from a topic which members willingly follow if they feel it leads to a more congenial subject: it in no way trivialises the OP.

I think the disagreements have so fractured every group on both sides of the Great Divide that the chances of us finding some sort of useful common ground is rather small - just my view from rather close to the coal face.

[jayne lee wilson]

Two points, the words 'impermissible' or to be more accurate 'verging on the impermissible' was simply referring to what doversoul has just quoted.

What you call 'jokes and puns' were, I think, only the usual forum veering away from a topic which members willing follow if they feel it leads to a more congenial subject: it in no way trivialises the OP.

I think the disagreements have so fractured every group on both sides of the Great Divide that the chances of us finding some sort of useful common ground is rather small - just my view from rather close to the coal face.

Well I did feel it trivialised it I'm afraid - that was my point.
A few weeks ago a lengthy Mahler piece of mine was sidetracked from the start, by comments mocking the larger typeface I'd used (to help reading a longer piece).
I guess I'm just too thin-skinned.

(I think I better go in the garden now, or listen to some Mendelssohn....big sigh...!)

[burning dog]

But is Brexit essentially Party Political?

NO!

[burning dog]

Quick US-UK Deal

an article from "TV Trump"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-backs-brexit-by-promising-large-scale-trade-deal-with-uk-as-lawmakers-mull-delay

I think some of the leading no-dealers are involved in this, but I doubt this would appeal to many of their supporters in the general public

Out of the frying pan into the fire springs to mind..............