Anyone with a septic tank ?

[Anastasius]

Then did you know that the 'moratorium' for allowing them to discharge directly into a watercourse expires Jan 2020. General Binding Regulations explain it all. Severe penalties for continuing to do so and, of course, if you come to sell your property and the purchasers' solicitors are on the ball then you could have some problems with the sale.

Have discovered that ours, and contrary to what the vendor told us in writing when we bought the place, does not discharge to land (ground) but into the stream.

[Dave2002]

Does the problem only arise if a discharge actually occurs, or is simply having an overflow to the stream sufficient for you to incur penalties? You should be able to get the tank emptied periodically.

Is it possible to get an alarm/meter fitted to the tank to alert you when the need for emptying it arises? If so, would that satisfy the changing rules?

If not, what can you do? I think it’s possible to have “overflow” diverted to land. I’m not sure that’s very pleasant - but perhaps in some very rural areas it’s acceptable - maybe onto farmland.

[Anastasius]

Does the problem only arise if a discharge actually occurs, or is simply having an overflow to the stream sufficient for you to incur penalties?

Only about 40% of the digestion process takes place inside the tank IIRC. The rest is carried out by bacteria, for example, when it discharges to ground. It doesn't take long for the tank to fill with water as opposed to more odorous material and so the discharge will occur well before the tank needs emptying. So ...in breach of the regulations.

Is it possible to get an alarm/meter fitted to the tank to alert you when the need for emptying it arises?

Not relevant...see above

If so, would that satisfy the changing rules?

No...see above

If not, what can you do? I think it’s possible to have “overflow” diverted to land. I’m not sure that’s very pleasant - but perhaps in some very rural areas it’s acceptable - maybe onto farmland.

If by that you're suggesting simply to run onto the surface of a field then that is a definite no-no...let alone the stench. You can discharge to ground (using buried pipes) but you need (a) suitable ground (b) enough ground (c) a low water table

[Dave2002]

So what's the solution?

Re running off the overflow onto a field, I'm fairly sure a friend of mine was doing that years ago, with no great problems, but maybe things have changed now. I don't know about the stench factor - obviously could be different with the sludge stuff. I think it only affected sheep in the next field. It's a long while since I had a discussion with him about this. His land was slightly higher than the adjacent field. Maybe he did have a below ground pipe discharge as you suggest.

[Anastasius]

Sewage treatment plant such as a WPL Diamond. Plus all the groundworks. You're looking at between £6k-£7k

[Dave2002]

Is that what you're having to plan for? Fortunately we are on mains sewerage, so not hopefully an issue. My parents had a tank, but that was a while back, and that house has been sold.

I guess this is the sort of thing you're looking at - https://wpldiamond.com/wpl-diamond-dms/

Can't you get the groundworks done for less - farmers with tractors and other kit, etc.? Sometimes (but not always) someone else in your community will know how to do this kind of thing.

[Anastasius]

Is that what you're having to plan for? Fortunately we are on mains sewerage, so not hopefully an issue. My parents had a tank, but that was a while back, and that house has been sold.

I guess this is the sort of thing you're looking at - https://wpldiamond.com/wpl-diamond-dms/

Can't you get the groundworks done for less - farmers with tractors and other kit, etc.? Sometimes (but not always) someone else in your community will know how to do this kind of thing.

Actually, my builder will be able todo it for a bit less l though the cost of the WPL is about £2300 inc VAT. There may be other cheaper ones but this one gets a good write-up. You can forget farmers etc as these things need Building Control sign-off.

Actually the cost to me is irrelevant as I will be giving the bill to the vendor because it was he who gave incorrect information in the property particulars (ie part of the contract) and on which the purchase pice was based. Had he been upfront then we would have renegotiated the price.

[gradus]

We're on septic tanks and they're a pain hence our village campaign to get mains sewerage. After a long battle with Anglian Water who turned us down the appeal to the Dof Environment went our way but it took three years and 18 months on all we know is that AW have scheduled it in their next 5year plan period ending 2025!
Meanwhile we carry on with the septic tanks. Our answer to the problem of getting rid of the sewage water was to rent drainage into an adjacent field. It was a complicated job but has worked for the last 30 years. The cottage next door had the nightmare of the soakaway system - the key to a successful home sewage arrangement - fail at Christmas 4 years ago and had to empty the tanks every 10 days for a couple of months until the builder could install a pumped soakaway around the garden,which has done the trick.
If this moratorium is to end how on earth will the multitude who have disc systems discharging into running water cope?
Sadly, pumping out on to the garden is sometimes the only choice dangerous as that undoubtedly is.

[Anastasius]

To be fair to the EA, we have had ten years warning !

[Dave2002]

Actually the cost to me is irrelevant as I will be giving the bill to the vendor because it was he who gave incorrect information in the property particulars (ie part of the contract) and on which the purchase price was based. Had he been upfront then we would have renegotiated the price.

Good luck with that. In my somewhat limited experience vendors may not actually pay up. If you have to take the vendor to court it’ll probably be more time and effort than it’s really worth. If it was a recent purchase you could try to get the solicitors to cough up, but they’ll probably have a let out.

Try taking a solicitor to court.

Caveat emptor is still the way of the world I think.

[Anastasius]

Good luck with that. In my somewhat limited experience vendors may not actually pay up. If you have to take the vendor to court it’ll probably be more time and effort than it’s really worth. If it was a recent purchase you could try to get the solicitors to cough up, but they’ll probably have a let out.

It's a no-brainer. False information. End of. I'll get costs as well. Little time and effort needed either. I have all the documents as part of the purchase.

Try taking a solicitor to court.

I did. Well, to the Law Society who used a top notch London firm of solicitors to challenge the costs that the local solicitor had charged. The local solicitor capitulated and I got a 75% refund of the charges. The case was passed on to the same London firm to carry on with. They did reasonably well. Their charges were also reasonable. Until. Until several months after the case was done and dusted I suddenly got a large invoice with some unsubstantiated charges. Clearly some of the solicitors and legal staff were short of hours one month and thought they could blag it on me. So I challenged it and took them in front of the Taxing Master. I won that one as well.

Caveat emptor is still the way of the world I think.

True but also based on information provided. Especially written information as in this case.

[french frank]

Actually the cost to me is irrelevant as I will be giving the bill to the vendor

Might be something for the Small Claims court. The carpenter (not joiner, as specified) who made a wholly inadequate internal door for me, the faults of which didn't show up for several months, had to pay up.

I put a charge on his house (useless unless he happens to be intending to sell - but in this case he was because his wife had just left him, with all the financial consequences). The solicitor paid me - along with others who had similarly placed a charge on his house - out of the sale proceeds.

But I was still out of pocket after all the time and hassle of pursuing him. But I was outraged and driven

[Anastasius]

Thanks for that suggestion, FF. I see that there is an upper limit of only £1000 for house repairs but I think mine is not in that category. But the good news is that, whilst Googling, I'd forgotten that I've still got the monthly sub to Which Legal which I took out when doing probate on my late mothers' estate (got it all done in under three weeks !). I'll give them a call tomorrow.

[Dave2002]

One possibility is that the vendor might just agree to pay - if he/she realises that otherwise you are really going to go for it. I think (from memory) that the Small Claims court goes up to £10k - but as mentioned there may be limits on different categories. I had a lot of "advice" in one of my disputes - but one solicitor simply suggested that if I wanted to spend the next couple of years of my life in courts of the defendant's choosing, I might win, but otherwise it might be easiest to just let things go. I found Trading Standards to be about as useful as my chocolate teapots (!!) and MPs have been too busy with "other things" over the last few years for them to be of any help. My case could have been for a lot more than £10k - but would then not have been handled by the SCCs, or we could have limited the claim to £10k.

[Anastasius]

The good news is that advice for this sort of thing is covered by my Which legal cover. The even better news is that I have a good case, Small Claims Court will handle it. Thanks FF for jogging my brain !

Which did ask if I had any home insurance in place (on the old home) at the time of purchase...said insurance having a legal cover section. Not sure on that one.