Does this constitute snobbery?

[Dave2002]

Oh no! Absolutely NO pride at all. Nothing but embarrassment. Mind you, I could sight read some pretty complex music so I must have some arithmetical abilities.

I suspect you are better than you think, but even if you aren’t it’s not such a big deal.

Some people really can’t cope with maths, but many are put off by others, and could do it if they tried. Also many people think most of maths is numbers, and perhaps equations, but that’s really only a small part of it. People who do Sudoku - and there are many of them - are doing maths (logic), and many games which some people do intuitively also involve maths - logic and probability.

It is of course true that most people can live good lives without much maths, though somebody has to do it. Some is just “fun”, and some seems useless (pure maths, number theory), while other parts are needed for things like aircraft design, bridge design, and all sorts of applications which we now tend to take for granted. Until the 1970s the maths behind CD players and digital radio and TV was thought to be a set of useless curiosities, which hardly anyone was interested in.

[Conchis]

I suspect you are better than you think, but even if you aren’t it’s not such a big deal.

Some people really can’t cope with maths, but many are put off by others, and could do it if they tried. Also many people think most of maths is numbers, and perhaps equations, but that’s really only a small part of it. People who do Sudoku - and there are many of them - are doing maths (logic), and many games which some people do intuitively also involve maths - logic and probability.

It is of course true that most people can live good lives without much maths, though somebody has to do it. Some is just “fun”, and some seems useless (pure maths, number theory), while other parts are needed for things like aircraft design, bridge design, and all sorts of applications which we now tend to take for granted. Until the 1970s the maths behind CD players and digital radio and TV was thought to be a set of useless curiosities, which hardly anyone was interested in.

Going to school had a deleterious effect on my mathematical development. I could count and add up fairly well for someone of my age up to the age of, say, 5 - then, I don't know what happened, but I struggled. It didn't help that I found the subject inherently bleak and uninteresting - like being forced to stare into a vast, arid landscape.

It probably doesn't help that I've always considered crosswords, betting and card games a complete waste of time.

[Dave2002]

Going to school had a deleterious effect on my mathematical development. I could count and add up fairly well for someone of my age up to the age of, say, 5 - then, I don't know what happened, but I struggled. It didn't help that I found the subject inherently bleak and uninteresting - like being forced to stare into a vast, arid landscape.

It probably doesn't help that I've always considered crosswords, betting and card games a complete waste of time.

I can do simple crosswords, but the cryptic ones - they're totally beyound me. I'm with you there! I don't in general bet, but perhaps two or three times a year we buy lottery tickets. I only won £25 back - which is probably less than the total I put in over the years, but not by a lot.

Perhaps the simplest example I can give of mathematical thought, apart from geometry, is a tale of someone who I know (slightly) who went shopping, got to the till and waited until the bill was rung up. "That's not correct, he said" to the checkout person. "Ah - you're one of those people who adds it all up, and knows exactly what it should be," was the reply. "No - I simply keep a tally of every price which is odd, and from that I can work out that the total must be odd (or maybe even). It should have been odd (even), and the amount you have said is even (odd)."

This thread has made me rethink somewhat. There are several different scenarios.

1. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You tell the people who do, in a way which puts them down.
2. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You don't tell the people who do, but you tell your friends and acquaintances, and you all laugh at those other people - behind their backs. It doesn't hurt those people directly - but may affect them indirectly.
3. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You admit this to the people who do, but tell them that you just like different things, and that their choices are as good as yours.
4. You don't like or appreciate something - for whatever reason. You keep quiet about it.

I have never been very keen on sport. I may have used mode 2 above in the past. Mode 3 can also be a put down - but may not be, depending on how it is used and expressed.

Another slightly different example does relate to sport. I have very slight interest in football. Before secondary school I played football a bit. I never got into following football by going to matches - I did go to a few, but not enough to stimulate me to invest time and effort into going often. I preferred going to concerts. I didn't realise for a long while that there is what may be a class divide in sport - between football and rugby. Some people are keen on rugby, some are keen on football (soccer). Then of course there are our friends overseas to the west who play something which they call football (sorry - that's intended in a friendly way...). A few people are almost omni-sport people - they'll follow almost anything - and like football (soccer) and rugby equally, but amongst the only rugby, only soccer people there is the potential for snobbish attitudes - perhaps not amongst those who play it, but amongst others - possibly family members of players.

The reason, sadly, relates to money, class and education. In the UK many public schools play rugby, but not soccer [the situation may have changed in recent years], while state schools probably support football. Thus an admission that "my son plays rugby at school" [just an example] can be considered/used as a put down in discussion. Whether statements like this are put downs, with a snobbish element or not, may also depend on who the speakers are, and how they are said. They may simply be statements of fact, with no side to them, or not.

A lot of this issue is about tolerance, and not upsetting people.

[teamsaint]

Many of the major public schools have football ( soccer) as major sports including Eton, Westminster, Winchester.

[Dave2002]

Many of the major public schools have football ( soccer) as major sports including Eton, Westminster, Winchester.

I'm guessing that times have changed.

[teamsaint]

I'm guessing that times have changed.

That may be,( eg Charterhouse which has developed in football in recent times ) but those schools I mentioned and many others have historically had football as a/the major winter game.

[greenilex]

Can I get in a plug for U3A and multifarious uni extension courses?

[MrGongGong]

I've never heard of Kafka...

I find that really hard to believe

and what Alain said

Although we cannot all know everything about everything, revelling in one's ignorance and dismissing the subject as not worth knowing is perhaps real snobbery.

Is something I have encountered many times with so-called "Classical Music Lovers" far more than those who live in the world of Hip-Hop.

(where is MrP or Prof Says when you need a bit of "academic" rigour these days? )

[Dave2002]

(where is MrP or Prof Says when you need a bit of "academic" rigour these days? )

Didn't Mr P go on a round the world tour looking into the history of beards, and shaving instruments?

[doversoul1]

This thread has made me rethink somewhat. There are several different scenarios.

1. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You tell the people who do, in a way which puts them down.
2. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You don't tell the people who do, but you tell your friends and acquaintances, and you all laugh at those other people - behind their backs. It doesn't hurt those people directly - but may affect them indirectly.
3. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You admit this to the people who do, but tell them that you just like different things, and that their choices are as good as yours.
4. You don't like or appreciate something - for whatever reason. You keep quiet about it.

Very interesting but what about:
You like something because you simply do but you don’t tell a person/people even when you are asked because you think … what do you think we are thinking in this situation? Or do you never get into this situation?

[MrGongGong]

Didn't Mr P go on a round the world tour looking into the history of beards, and shaving instruments?

Last seen attempting to ride his bicycle up a beach in the Anderman islands?

[Conchis]

1. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You tell the people who do, in a way which puts them down.
2. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You don't tell the people who do, but you tell your friends and acquaintances, and you all laugh at those other people - behind their backs. It doesn't hurt those people directly - but may affect them indirectly.
3. You don't like something - for whatever reason. You admit this to the people who do, but tell them that you just like different things, and that their choices are as good as yours.
4. You don't like or appreciate something - for whatever reason. You keep quiet about it.

.

I think you may have articulated a few fundamental truths here.

But what about liking something, or being ignorant of something, yet being carefully selective about those whom your reveal your preferences to?

I think Cleethorpes Woman was a good example of failure in this regard - if she'd had anything more than rudimentary social antennae, she'd have understood that revealing your ignorance of Kafka in a roomful of 'arts-based professionals' (of whom she was supposedly one) might not be the best move for her own credibility.

I'll make a confession, here: I like Gilbert O'Sullivan - I think he came out with some great songs in his time. They may not be 'great song literature' and a few of them may have soft centres but his combination of suburban melancholia married to McCartneyesque melodies is hard to beat, sometimes. Now, I'd be very chary of revealing this to certain people of my close acquaintance, who have already made their mind up about G O'S, if not about 'pop' music in general and it would be beyond my powers of persuasion to convince them that he's anything other than a purveyor or mindless, sentimental pop ditties, but there you are. I'll confess it to the members of this forum, because I suspect some may share my feelings......

[Conchis]

Last seen attempting to ride his bicycle up a beach in the Anderman islands?

I think I just about remember Mr.P - didn't he have something to do with the Chichester Festival Theatre?

[LMcD]

I think you may have articulated a few fundamental truths here.

But what about liking something, or being ignorant of something, yet being carefully selective about those whom your reveal your preferences to?

I think Cleethorpes Woman was a good example of failure in this regard - if she'd had anything more than rudimentary social antennae, she'd have understood that revealing your ignorance of Kafka in a roomful of 'arts-based professionals' (of whom she was supposedly one) might not be the best move for her own credibility.

I'll make a confession, here: I like Gilbert O'Sullivan - I think he came out with some great songs in his time. They may not be 'great song literature' and a few of them may have soft centres but his combination of suburban melancholia married to McCartneyesque melodies is hard to beat, sometimes. Now, I'd be very chary of revealing this to certain people of my close acquaintance, who have already made their mind up about G O'S, if not about 'pop' music in general and it would be beyond my powers of persuasion to convince them that he's anything other than a purveyor or mindless, sentimental pop ditties, but there you are. I'll confess it to the members of this forum, because I suspect some may share my feelings......

As it's clearly confession time (gulp)… here goes....
I like Gilbert AND Sullivan.
So there!

[Conchis]

As it's clearly confession time (gulp)… here goes....
I like Gilbert AND Sullivan.
So there!

I don't and never have - but, if I did, that's something I would keep very close to my chest indeed. :)