Does this constitute snobbery?

[doversoul1]

I think your first post was perfectly reasonable Conchis in that you were being entirely honest about your thoughts.
Most of Pedants' Corner operates on the premise that people are taken to task for usages which are...well...frowned upon by the cognoscenti. This in itself smacks of snobbery. And I plead guilty. It makes me flinch when the verb 'to come' is conjugated (or rather not conjugated) as 'come' in the third person singular. But why? Meaning is perfectly clear. And why should we look down more on a native speaker with this quirk than, say, a French speaker with imperfect English (e.g. 'e come to Pareee for 'oliday)?

Surely, that comes under ‘native speakers should know better’? (i.e. you can’t bring in the mistakes or imperfections made by non-native speakers as an analogy or an excuse) Or have I got you wrong?

[Bryn]

It's not helped by supermarkets either, which sell packets of mixed "fruits".

Which is correct use. Fruit, as a plural, refers to more than one fruit of the same type whereas "Fruits" refers to different fruits. Simples.

[eighthobstruction]

I think your first post was perfectly reasonable Conchis in that you were being entirely honest about your thoughts.
Most of Pedants' Corner operates on the premise that people are taken to task for usages which are...well...frowned upon by the cognoscenti. This in itself smacks of snobbery. And I plead guilty. It makes me flinch when the verb 'to come' is conjugated (or rather not conjugated) as 'come' in the third person singular. But why? Meaning is perfectly clear. And why should we look down more on a native speaker with this quirk than, say, a French speaker with imperfect English (e.g. 'e come to Pareee for 'oliday)?

....that was kind of my take too {I'm making all types of flagrant gram' errors, not necessarily on purpose}....or Yes, Ardcarp that was my opinion as well....his opening up to almost inevitable scorn....

[Dave2002]

Which is correct use. Fruit, as a plural, refers to more than one fruit of the same type whereas "Fruits" refers to different fruits. Simples.

No - I don't think that is correct.

Of course if we consider another one "fish" - there is historical precedent for "fishes", though (sadly) I've not come across "sheeps".

[vinteuil]

.

Which is correct use. Fruit, as a plural, refers to more than one fruit of the same type whereas "Fruits" refers to different fruits. Simples.

.

No - I don't think that is correct.

Of course if we consider another one "fish" - there is historical precedent for "fishes", though (sadly) I've not come across "sheeps".

... do you want a list of the fruits of the earth ?

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fruits

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fruits_of_the_Earth

.

[vinteuil]

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... and talking of fruits - the best 'joke' involving apples :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSifxC_L9F0

http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~ez506/downloads/Zweig_dependent_plurals_2009.pdf

.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plural-quant/

.

[MrGongGong]

country of origin: somewhere in the biosphere

That RB eee-nose his ambient

[MrGongGong]

.

... and talking of fruits - the best 'joke' involving apples :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSifxC_L9F0

.

And the best piece ? (not "Jazz" apples though)

[french frank]

I think your first post was perfectly reasonable Conchis in that you were being entirely honest about your thoughts.

Indeed. Express your sincere opinion and people know where you stand. Though it was the reaction to the person involved which I deemed 'unreasonable' - cold shouldering (or whatever the phrase was) someone because she hadn't heard of Kafka. It may be a lady who could do you a very good turn some day: that's why treating people with respect and kindness is seldom a bad idea.

On fruit and fish. The singular form is used when the context suggests uncountables, where kind or number are unimportant.

[Sir Velo]

I think you delude yourself. I can't see any reply which suggests that your reaction to the lady you describe is anything but unreasonable and/or reprehensible. But you aren't ashamed of it. Fine. Only you will suffer in ways of which you may not even be aware

Really? Not sure I agree.

I think that the majority of respondents to this thread have sided with the culturally ignorant lady out of a natural desire to take the side of the underdog. I think, if we're being honest with ourselves, we will all recognise Conchis' reaction as one which we would have felt in the same circumstances, as in "How can someone work in the arts and not heard of Kafka?"

Where I differ from Conchis is that my view is motivated by a sense of despair at the state of widespread ignorance in this country, rather than one of snobbery.

[french frank]

Really? Not sure I agree.

I think that the majority of respondents to this thread have sided with the culturally ignorant lady out of a natural desire to take the side of the underdog. I think, if we're being honest with ourselves, we will all recognise Conchis' reaction as one which we would have felt in the same circumstances, as in "How can someone work in the arts and not heard of Kafka?"

Where I differ from Conchis is that my view is motivated by a sense of despair at the state of widespread ignorance in this country, rather than one of snobbery.

See my #279. This was the bit I took issue with: "After learning this, I'm afraid I cold-shouldered her for the rest of the day. I just found it embarrassing to be in the same space as someone so casually ignorant. "

I might blink in some surprise (but that's mainly because Kafka and the Absurd were prominent in the culture of my time). I think they became less so. But 'the arts' doesn't mean one is necessarily informed about literature: it can be music, the visual arts in all their forms. So, no, I could never cold-shoulder someone on account of their ignorance of a branch of learning. Or think the less of them.

[MrGongGong]

"How can someone work in the arts and not heard of Kafka?"
.

Or to (mis)quote my former composition teacher

"How can anyone understand Mozart if they are unaware of what was going on in Mongolia in 4BC"

it IS extraordinary that this is the case IMV (the Kafka)

It is also extraordinary that many so-called "music lovers" will wear their ignorance as a badge of honour.
But I do think that knowing about things is now often conflated with "liking" them.


And to add to #281
I do think that people involved in music (as players and listeners rather than composers) are remarkably ignorant of other cultural practices. I'm working with MA music students tomorrow and might have a little quiz along the lines of

1: Who was Kafka?
2: Name a painting by Rothko
3: Who choreographed the Rite of Spring
4: What is a low pass filter?
5: What is the speed of sound (at sea level at average temperature)

and so on

Maybe 10 questions?

[Bryn]

Or to (mis)quote my former composition teacher

"How can anyone understand Mozart if they are unaware of what was going on in Mongolia in 4BC"

it IS extraordinary that this is the case IMV (the Kafka)

It is also extraordinary that many so-called "music lovers" will wear their ignorance as a badge of honour.
But I do think that knowing about things is now often conflated with "liking" them.


And to add to #281
I do think that people involved in music (as players and listeners rather than composers) are remarkably ignorant of other cultural practices. I'm working with MA music students tomorrow and might have a little quiz along the lines of

1: Who was Kafka?
2: Name a painting by Rothko
3: Who choreographed the Rite of Spring
4: What is a low pass filter?
5: What is the speed of sound (at sea level at average temperature)

and so on

Maybe 10 questions?

You might need to be a bit more specific about that. A good many choreographers have had a go at the Rite of Spring, for instance.

[ardcarp]

It's not helped by supermarkets either, which sell packets of mixed "fruits".

Nuts?

[eighthobstruction]

You might need to be a bit more specific about that. A good many choreographers have had a go at the Rite of Spring, for instance.

....yeah , I'm sure I saw Pans People do it once....