Cold storage

[MrGongGong]

Rather than use bryn's term, I'll be blunter.
A load of b******ks.

Great pictures though. As for the cryo treated stuff, have virgins gone out of fashion?

I love it
I love the whole nonsense around it and how seemingly intelligent folks are taken in
I'm waiting for it to be united with the 432HZ thing and then we will have won Totnes bingo

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm sure you need no reminding of this wonderful item (specially designed for those who didn't study physics at school but with more money than sense)

https://www.russandrews.com/the-supe...0-evo-rhodium/

Trouble is, I've heard mains cables (attached to amps or sources) affecting the sound that emerges from your speakers too often to doubt that they can, whether beneficially or not seems very system-dependent i.e component- or local mains-conditions dependent. (Isolation Transformers can be very helpful too, though it wouldn't be much fun taking one of those back to the Post Office...).

But no, I'd never pay anything like that for them (most of mine are 2nd hand anyway (Nordost rather than Kimber), and as ever were trialled on SOR, so...)

Call it JLW's bit of madness, yes, but give my largely scientific-sceptical tendency I almost wish I hadn't heard what a mains cable can sometimes do.... but it is, or was, part of the system-building fun at the time....

[MrGongGong]

Trouble is, I've heard mains cables (attached to amps or sources) affecting the sound that emerges from your speakers too often to doubt that they can, whether beneficially or not seems very system-dependent i.e local mains-conditions dependent.

But no, I'd never pay anything like that for them (most of mine are 2nd hand anyway (Nordost rather than Kimber), and as ever were trialled on SOR, so...)

Call it JLW's bit of madness, yes, but give my largely scientific-sceptical tendency I almost wish I hadn't heard what a mains cable can sometimes do.... but it is, or was, part of the system-building fun at the time....

Hummmm
I'm not convinced by the mains cable thing at all
Signal leads, yes that does make sense, and dodgy mains can be an issue but as long as the current and voltage are consistent then ?
I'll ask someone who really knows the science

[jayne lee wilson]

Hummmm
I'm not convinced by the mains cable thing at all
Signal leads, yes that does make sense, and dodgy mains can be an issue but as long as the current and voltage are consistent then ?
I'll ask someone who really knows the science

Of course low voltages and/or power surges do happen to domestic supplies, especially in winter, which may be one of the reasons why some mains products are at least seasonally effective, or at certain times of day. (Ever felt your system sounds better in the owl hours?)
My Mains Transformers are designed to protect against such things to some extent (Hence the "2AM sound all day" catchphrase)....

I occasionally come into the listening room to find that most of the components have switched off/into standby, a sure sign of some kind of mains disturbance.... often noticed after flickering of lights....

[MrGongGong]

Of course low voltages and/or power surges do happen to domestic supplies, especially in winter, which may be one of the reasons why some mains products are at least seasonally effective, or at certain times of day. (Ever felt your system sounds better in the owl hours?)
My Mains Transformers are designed to protect against such things to some extent (Hence the "2AM sound all day" catchphrase)....

I occasionally come into the listening room to find that most of the components have switched off/into standby, a sure sign of some kind of mains disturbance.... often noticed after flickering of lights....

Indeed there is considerable fluctuation in mains (my studio Genelecs sometimes turn themselves on detetcting a signal when i'm not there)
BUT i'm not convinced that a different cable (unless you really are using a bit of cheapo "bell wire" as a mains lead, which will probably overheat and trip out anyway) makes a difference to the SOUND.
Will investigate more
Most studios i've worked in (including Maida Vale etc ) DO have mains stabalisation but (and i'm not an expert at all) surely that's what capacitors are there for in equipment?

[gradus]

Indeed there is considerable fluctuation in mains (my studio Genelecs sometimes turn themselves on detetcting a signal when i'm not there)
BUT i'm not convinced that a different cable (unless you really are using a bit of cheapo "bell wire" as a mains lead, which will probably overheat and trip out anyway) makes a difference to the SOUND.
Will investigate more
Most studios i've worked in (including Maida Vale etc ) DO have mains stabalisation but (and i'm not an expert at all) surely that's what capacitors are there for in equipment?

I've always wondered if any of the Russ Andrews cable claims as to improvements in sound have been verified scientifically but then I thought how on earth would that make any difference, since listeners may or may not agree, so what?

[ardcarp]

It falls into the same category as the guy who (very successfully) marketed magnets which you attached to the fuel line of your car to 'improve' fuel consumption. There was not a shred of evidence that they had the slightest effect.

[Dave2002]

Hummmm
I'm not convinced by the mains cable thing at all
Signal leads, yes that does make sense, and dodgy mains can be an issue but as long as the current and voltage are consistent then ?
I'll ask someone who really knows the science

I have met people who swear by mains cable. When I challenge them and point out that they have no idea how good the cable behind the wall socket is they always come up with excuses.

If there were filters in the mains lines it might reduce noise injection via the mains into kit. Additional stabilisation might also help if good. Some people give up on mains altogether and use batteries instead - something which I think you have tried. A lot of people suggest that using cheapish switching psus doesn’t compare with using a well stabilised linear power supply - maybe the reason for that - if it works - is that at moments of high load the mains is slightly affected by the load on the amp - though it does seem a bit far fetched. OTOH decent power amps should use large capacitors to handle short term power peaks.

[jayne lee wilson]

Worth reiterating that many audiophiles start investigating mains products because of frustration at sonic inconsistencies across 24 hours. (Well, night owls at least....)

You'd play a new CD at 2 or 3AM and think wow, how great is this? I've really got somewhere...! Listening next evening between 7 and 9 it would be... is it just me? Not terrible, just less vibrant, less dynamic, less real. Somehow....reduced....
(Not a happy situation for evening, especially winter evening, concerts either...).

So after listening at say, 7, then 10 or 11pm - I would leave the system as it was, volume settings etc., then return when the world was asleep... I was often shocked at the difference - scale, fullness, dynamics, openness all returned and then some. At times I found it so much bigger and louder I had to reduce the volume.
After that it was just a question of trialling (Isolation Transformers, cables etc), and keeping whatever seemed beneficial - the goal simply being 24-hour consistency.
I still think the system sometimes has a better sound late night/early morning, but there's much less in it now.

There can be physiological reasons for systems sounding different of course - ears, heads, health, fatigue, alcohol.....an ear blessed with long silence may respond the more keenly. But one always tries to allow for this - to include the observer in the picture!

[Dave2002]

I do think that brains and ears can, and do, adapt. I have been to concerts where I thought the acoustics and dynamics weren't good, but after 30 minutes or so things seemed fine. Was that me, or something else? Sometimes there really are deficiencies. I think I can tell the difference between the Met and ROH productions of opera as shown in cinema, and for both I think the sound is not as good as in either house (though I've not been to the Met). However, after around 15 minutes the deficiencies of the sound system usually start to seem irrelevant. The cost differences are, however, considerable. £15-£30 for a cinema seat, and often well over £100 for a seat in the ROH. For the Met one has to fly to NY!

Do I prefer better quality sound? Yes of course, but sometimes it is perhaps possible to imagine differences which aren't really there - at least by any objective measurements. Subjective assessments are very hard, as if they are "real" the objective measurements which can be done would only be looking for very small differences - however, and I hope you will agree, sometimes those small differences can have enormous effect.

There is a discussion elsewhere about some other form of "woo" as mrgg might put it - so-called grounding boxes. Most people are sceptical, while a few people say that the difference with them installed (somehow) in their systems makes a "huge" difference.

I was sceptical about interconnects for analogue systems - but they do make a big difference. I tried different loudspeaker cables - mostly they don't (IMO) make a huge difference. Mains cables - there I am much more sceptical, though having a "clean" mains supply seems an obvious thing to do to avoid spurious noise, such as when the fridge turns on or off.

I don't believe in putting my CDs in the freezer.

[Anastasius]

Friend of mine took some 2.5mm mains cable and separated out the red and the black (it was a long time ago!) as two separate wires. Went to one of the hi-fi emporia as was then up Tottenham Court Road and asked to do an A/B comparator test against some of the, then, new-fangled Monster cables. Not letting on, of course, where his 'speaker cables' had come from (at about 1/100th the cost of the Monster cables).

They spent about twenty minutes comparing them an he couldn't tell any difference. Neither could the assistant although to fight his corner felt that '...maybe slightly more transparency in the treble ?...".

When the assistant asked where my friend had got his 'speaker cables from' he was less than impressed.

[gradus]

Worth reiterating that many audiophiles start investigating mains products because of frustration at sonic inconsistencies across 24 hours. (Well, night owls at least....)

You'd play a new CD at 2 or 3AM and think wow, how great is this? I've really got somewhere...! Listening next evening between 7 and 9 it would be... is it just me? Not terrible, just less vibrant, less dynamic, less real. Somehow....reduced....
(Not a happy situation for evening, especially winter evening, concerts either...).

So after listening at say, 7, then 10 or 11pm - I would leave the system as it was, volume settings etc., then return when the world was asleep... I was often shocked at the difference - scale, fullness, dynamics, openness all returned and then some. At times I found it so much bigger and louder I had to reduce the volume.
After that it was just a question of trialling (Isolation Transformers, cables etc), and keeping whatever seemed beneficial - the goal simply being 24-hour consistency.
I still think the system sometimes has a better sound late night/early morning, but there's much less in it now.

There can be physiological reasons for systems sounding different of course - ears, heads, health, fatigue, alcohol.....an ear blessed with long silence may respond the more keenly. But one always tries to allow for this - to include the observer in the picture!

Surely Jayne your last sentence explains the mystery of cables, how can you 'allow for this' since you don't know what you're allowing for? Just asking.

[MrGongGong]

So I asked someone who really knows about the science of these things (he works in a University teaching recording, acoustics and multichannel audio etc) and his response was predictably that, yes, mains stability makes a difference to how well equipment works BUT there is nothing to be gained in terms of SOUND by using over-priced mains leads.

Or to quote "If the mains supply is shit then a mains cable however expensive is not going to help. Just make sure that the cable is properly rated for the equipment. "

There really isn't anything to be gained by using expensive IEC mains leads apart from the psychological "advantages".

[jayne lee wilson]

Surely Jayne your last sentence explains the mystery of cables, how can you 'allow for this' since you don't know what you're allowing for? Just asking.

My last sentence in #24 wasn't much to do with cables (or only incidentally), just remarking on my own self-observation of how one's physical condition can affect one's auditory response. Frequently insomniac, if I get a few hours' patchy sleep and then come down to listen in the early morning, I often respond more keenly than at any other time to the music itself, irrespective of how good I think it sounds in hifi terms.
It seems that the musical brain plugs more directly or instinctively into the music, perhaps because I'm only just awake (or even half-awake...)...

Prolonged quiet before listening is nearly always a good preparation. But if I've been dealing with business, finance, discussing things with others through the afternoon, that evening is often quite the worst time to listen; I feel like I'm "in the wrong brain".....

I don't think there's much mystery about signal cables - any perceivable sonic difference can only be due to cable geometry, termination and length.
But with mains, it still surprises me that I've heard them make a difference. I almost wish I hadn't - if it weren't for the sonic benefits that persuaded me to keep them....(Nordost rather than Kimber/RA - I never got much out of the Classic Powerkords...)

Thought-Experiment for sceptics: A friend persuades you to listen to a familiar recording, while they change out the mains cables; to your surprise, you DO hear the sound change with them.
How would you respond?

[MrGongGong]

Thought-Experiment for sceptics: A friend persuades you to listen to a familiar recording, while they change out the mains cables; to your surprise, you DO hear the sound change with them.
How would you respond?

If someone you know and like does something for you then you are likely to respond positively.
When I used to work with bands in a studio I would frequently get members saying that the sound of their instrument wasn't good when mixing down (having a band in the room while doing this is a bit of a high risk strategy anyway). So a couple of times I gave the guitarist (and it's often guitarists who are very critical about how their percieve their sound) a channel on the desk which had nothing routed to it. After tweaking the EQ and levels they would say that they were now happy. Psychology is powerful stuff (homeopathic A&E anyone ? )