I don't want to have an account, or have my email saved or more emails collected ...

[Old Grumpy]

Old driving licence photo: that is worrying - my current driving licence doesn't have a photo!

OG

[Serial_Apologist]

Old driving licence photo: that is worrying - my current driving licence doesn't have a photo!

OG

I always worry about having to physically send the driving licence to the DVLA, for the same reason as worrying if I have to send my actual birth certificate, because the organisation concerned will not accept a photocopy. Luckily it hasn't happened so far, but what if said item got lost in the post?

[oddoneout]

I had a very similar experience to this when signing up to the Government Gateway in order to check my state pension. I'd got about three-quarters of the way through when it suddenly asked for proof of identity. I don't drive so the only option was my passport. I quickly dashed upstairs, unlocked my bureau, rooted around for the passport and raced downstairs ... only to find I'd been timed out and had to go through the whole process again.

I struggled last year to be admitted to the hollowed gateway because although I had access to my driving licence went through all the hoops I couldn't get access. There's a list of calls made etc on the back of the printout of the user ID, and it's obvious from my password that I was less than impressed with the whole thing. Today I had occasion to need to use it to check NI record and state pension. The whole site has been finally put together so I was able to do that, unlike last year when I ended up just having to ask them to send me statements. However there was one hiccup at the beginning; I put in my user ID and password, clicked continue and then was faced with a chirpy message that they'd sent an access code to ....., and a box to enter said code. My cold-logged brain at first read the asterisks and last 3 digits as a credit card number(That's not one of mine....), then realised it was my mobile - which I hardly ever use(£5 spent last year I think) and is always switched off. Fortunately it lives in the bureau beside my computer, so then it was just a case of waiting for it to catch up with the sent message and hoping I didn't get timed out. There was a feedback 'survey' at the end so I took the opportunity to say that that information should have appeared on the opening page, as we are not all permanently attached to a mobile phone. There are options to have the code emailed or a landline message sent, the latter could also cause problems if not flagged up at the beginning I imagine.

[Petrushka]

I always worry about having to physically send the driving licence to the DVLA, for the same reason as worrying if I have to send my actual birth certificate, because the organisation concerned will not accept a photocopy. Luckily it hasn't happened so far, but what if said item got lost in the post?

This did happen to me when I applied to join my company pension scheme in 1991 but the actual birth certificate I had to send got lost inter-company, not in the post. It never resurfaced and the firm paid the £5 fee for a replacement. But it's not the same is it? I felt pretty upset at the incompetence of these idiots.

Last month I put in my claim for that very pension and as part of that process they wanted ... my actual birth certificate!

[Dave2002]

I've used OLB for years. But only on the Mac. Certainly I wouldn't use an app on a mobile or worse still sign up to this Open Banking can of worms...that's a disaster waiting to happen.

Apps on mobile - may be variable - depending on the bank. I found that using the banking app for the Halifax on an iPad appears to be more reliable and hassle free than trying to use the web interface through a browser. It seems that the app/Halifax do a cross check on the app/IP address (or whatever ...) to do the identity verification, and this avoids the hassle (and possibly failed transactions) of multiple step verification - which may use mobile phone codes.

However, I have not really succeeded with the Santander app, and reports suggest it's not really very good.

You mention Open Banking - not quite sure what that is. Is that where there's a 3rd party "secure" and "trusted" site which has the details of all your bank accounts? Sounds very dangerous to me.

And with OLB you can play the banks so easily at their own game. I have accumulated over the years many relatively dormant bank accounts. So when an offer comes along 'Switch to us and we'll give you ....insert goodie or cash sum here ...' then it's dead easy to use one of those accounts and switch. And if the new account is one that says 'You must pay in £xx each month'...well, that's what Standing orders are for , innit £xx goes in Day 1 and Day 2 it goes back out again.

There comes a point when shifting thousands of pounds each month to gain, perhaps £2-3 in additional interest is perhaps not worth the bother. However, we do that to a modest extent, until the interest rate drops to something with a whole bunch of 0s before a non-zero digit. Interesting that you've got the SOs set up to put funds in one day and shift soon after - perhaps the banks find most people don't do that, so haven't plugged what, for them, might be considered a loophole.

[Anastasius]

....There was a feedback 'survey' at the end so I took the opportunity to say that that information should have appeared on the opening page, as we are not all permanently attached to a mobile phone. There are options to have the code emailed or a landline message sent, the latter could also cause problems if not flagged up at the beginning I imagine.

Agree with you totally even though I regularly use my smartphone. The assumption by companies that everyone (a) has a mobile phone but more likely (b) a smartphone and that (c) they have a mobile signal is unacceptable.

Careful you make the odd call every so often (caveat..grandma..eggs etc) else you may find your phone has been temporarily cut-off. Mist mobile providers are running out of PAYG numbers and if a number isn't used for x months then the phone can get 'frozen'.

[Anastasius]

Apps on mobile - may be variable - depending on the bank. I found that using the banking app for the Halifax on an iPad appears to be more reliable and hassle free than trying to use the web interface through a browser. It seems that the app/Halifax do a cross check on the app/IP address (or whatever ...) to do the identity verification, and this avoids the hassle (and possibly failed transactions) of multiple step verification - which may use mobile phone codes.

It's the security aspect of a mobile app that I take issue with. Not the app per se.

You mention Open Banking - not quite sure what that is. Is that where there's a 3rd party "secure" and "trusted" site which has the details of all your bank accounts? Sounds very dangerous to me.

It is. Too many opportunities for security holes but more importantly the fact that when (and it will) all goes TU then 'you' will become piggy in the middle as all the other finance companies close ranks and/or point the finger at each other. You, meanwhile, are destitute.

There comes a point when shifting thousands of pounds each month to gain, perhaps £2-3 in additional interest is perhaps not worth the bother. .....

You're a bit out of date. We're talking £100+ as a 'reward' with one bank or other goodies like a pair of wifi Sennheiser headphones worth c.£160-180. And I'll get another £100 when I close the account after six months

[oddoneout]

Agree with you totally even though I regularly use my smartphone. The assumption by companies that everyone (a) has a mobile phone but more likely (b) a smartphone and that (c) they have a mobile signal is unacceptable.

Careful you make the odd call every so often (caveat..grandma..eggs etc) else you may find your phone has been temporarily cut-off. Mist mobile providers are running out of PAYG numbers and if a number isn't used for x months then the phone can get 'frozen'.

Does this apply to a 'dumb' phone as well? I came up against a variant of this in that the Voicemail option kept getting withdrawn every 6 months, necessitating all sorts of faff to get it back. In the end I disabled it as it was too expensive to use anyway, and now ask for text messages to be used instead if someone needs to leave a message - or use my landline answerphone.
Fortunately I now have a text to send each week over and above any contact I make with my son so it's still 'live' even on my minimal usage.

[Dave2002]

It's the security aspect of a mobile app that I take issue with. Not the app per se.

Not quite sure what you mean there. Do you think some of the apps are "fake", or not well written, or can be "hijacked" easily? Do the apps end up containing personal codes which can be compromised? I really don't know. What I have observed is that using one of the apps - the Halifax one - does seem to make things easier, whereas using the equivalent web site through a browser involves more steps - possibly including calls to one of our mobile phones - in order to get things authenticated and done.

I think that browsers can be hacked so if we are going to be that concerned then that really means a "no no" to online banking, and so back to visiting branches - if that's still possible, or using the post or telephone to get things done rather slowly.

Some of the other banks - not so sure - for example Santander. I am not convinced that their app is any good, nor that their online banking is completely foolproof. From time to time computer magazines do an evaluation of the security of different online banking services - but I haven't read a recent one which does that.

It is. Too many opportunities for security holes but more importantly the fact that when (and it will) all goes TU then 'you' will become piggy in the middle as all the other finance companies close ranks and/or point the finger at each other. You, meanwhile, are destitute.

I suppose the attraction (ha!) of Open Banking is the ability to rapidly move money between accounts with different providers, but the obvious danger that the "trusted" open banking provider does not then know the details of just one set of accounts, but all or at least most of them. Very dangerous.

What sort of person would really like a service like that - even if not so vulnerable? Money launderers?

You're a bit out of date. We're talking £100+ as a 'reward' with one bank or other goodies like a pair of wifi Sennheiser headphones worth c.£160-180. And I'll get another £100 when I close the account after six months

I haven't been following trends such as those you mention. Perhaps you should open up an extension to the "bargains" threads to alert us to the latest offers!

I haven't even seen mention of some of these trends on Martin Lewis's site - Money Saving Expert - https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/

Although I do feel that some (most) banks try to rip us off - I don't feel too inclined to turn the tables by ripping the banks off in return.

However young ms d was so annoyed with one bank which closed an account without her notice when she was young (it had probably been opened when she around 5 as a savings account and closed unilaterally a few years later ....), because it hadn't been used much and had hardly any money in it, that when she went to university she deliberately opened an account with the same bank, took all the goodies, vouchers etc., then closed it again at the earliest opportunity. Not only that, but she persuaded all her friends to do likewise. Some people, even very young ones, have long memories, and take customer/service loyalty seriously.

[oddoneout]

What sort of person would really like a service like that - even if not so vulnerable? Money launderers?

Those who value convenience above security and/or believe the sales spiel - and are then mighty miffed if it doesn't turn out as expected? As soon as I see words to the effect of 'so secure nothing can go wrong' I read it as 'we've gone through the motions and it should be OK, but if not we can probably get out of it'.
As with so much else in the world of commerce, banks are not in business for our benefit; if they are pushing something it's because it suits them.

[Dave2002]

Those who value convenience above security and/or believe the sales spiel - and are then mighty miffed if it doesn't turn out as expected? As soon as I see words to the effect of 'so secure nothing can go wrong' I read it as 'we've gone through the motions and it should be OK, but if not we can probably get out of it'.
As with so much else in the world of commerce, banks are not in business for our benefit; if they are pushing something it's because it suits them.

Plus, as you mentioned, being a 3rd party agent, the banks would pass the blame, either on to each other, or the 3rd party, or the consumer.

End result - "Not our problem .... Zilch!"

Insurance companies are "good" at that sort of thing too.

[Anastasius]

Does this apply to a 'dumb' phone as well? ....

In our case, yes, but I think it depends on the mobile company. Orange or EE in this instance.

[Anastasius]

Not quite sure what you mean there. Do you think some of the apps are "fake", or not well written, or can be "hijacked" easily? ....

Vulnerability to malware etc. There are too many possible attack vectors on the mobile platform although iPhone is streets ahead of the others.

Browsers..well..most of them have been around long enough to have blocked most vulnerabilities IMO

[Dave2002]

Vulnerability to malware etc. There are too many possible attack vectors on the mobile platform although iPhone is streets ahead of the others.

Do you have an inside track on that?

I think Android platforms could be rather vulnerable - iOS presumably somewhat better, and affects tablets (iPads) as well as iPhones.

Browsers..well..most of them have been around long enough to have blocked most vulnerabilities IMO

I'm not sure about browsers. Most have been around long enough that attackers may have worked out the vulnerabilities - but maybe not.

[Anastasius]

Do you have an inside track on that?

.....

Yes, I do but unfortunately not at liberty to say.