Scala Radio

[Richard Barrett]

Leave CFM and Scala to deal with (hit) music from recent films and musicals. Which composers would that exclude from R3?

Simple solution: use the "Classical Charts" and permanently exclude from R3 everything that appears in the Top 10 from a given moment on!

[french frank]

Ah - so you want to shut out a lot of Benjamin Britten and Tippett then? Also some Stravinsky, Bartok and Rachmaninov, Prokofiev and Shostakovich.

No

I suppose if you don't like Bernstein, 1940 might be a good shut off date. John Adams, Philip Glass, George Crumb and a whole bunch of others would be cut out by this, even Thomas Ades (I'm not fond of) or Brett Dean or Nico Muhly. Surely R3 should be presenting the work of modern and contemporary composers - and not just relegating them to H&N and a few "cult" niches within the schedules.

I don't accept, from my musical viewpoint, that any of the composers are entirely without innovation - nor all of them, at least within their own terms - experimental. Where my ignorance prevails, I don't know where to place people like the Matthews brothers, who I would defintely include.

But suggesting I want to shut out such composers is a total overreaction considering that

a) I put a question mark after 1940 - which you have bolded - but '1940' can include 1957 or 1976 in my scale of values

b) I cannot see that guidelines need to be the same as unscaleable WALLS: "keep these people out". I've always held the view that Radio 3 can play hiphop and rap if it likes, since these can be treated in a way that is entirely consistent with a remit to be serious and studied. But it shouldn't be some sort of occasional bolt-hole for people whose real interest is rap or hiphop.

But then, I've never understood why a distinction is made between informative, 'serious' broadcasting and 'entertainment'. (Nor classical music and entertainment, if it comes to that).

[french frank]

Simple solution: use the "Classical Charts" and permanently exclude from R3 everything that appears in the Top 10 from a given moment on!

I did once give 'Feedback' to whatever it's called: The Special Classical Chart Company or something, saying most of the albums weren't classical at all.

[Dave2002]

Thanks for the clarification. (msg 14) Obviously we are now living in 1940!

[Dave2002]

I did once give 'Feedback' to whatever it's called: The Special Classical Chart Company or something, saying most of the albums weren't classical at all.

Ouch - Katherine Jenkins, Il Divo, Enaudi etc.

Avoid at all costs!

[cloughie]

I may be misjudging Simon Mayo but his history on R1 and 2 did not show great inroads into Classical music. I see that one of the presenters is to be Prom composer Goldie and another that murderer of the classics William Orbit. Maybe if a new radio station really wanted to challenge R3 then it should go back to what R3 was and present ‘proper’ classical music in full.

[oddoneout]

Coming back to this: it may be a wake-up call for Radio 3 to concentrate on its USP: serious, well-informed (and, when necessary, detailed) broadcasting of the arts; and focusing the 'classical' music programmes on a traditional canon up to (say) 1940(?); and at that point to follow the innovative/experimental. Leave CFM and Scala to deal with (hit) music from recent films and musicals. Which composers would that exclude from R3?

Is this to exclude the unwanted musical/film/show music? If so why not simply exclude it and not bother with a date cutoff(which would have to be revised periodically anyway surely?) Quite apart from the value judgements and disagreements that could ensue from definitions of innovative/experimental would you not risk excluding living composers if their music didn't fall into either of those categories?

[Barbirollians]

Simple solution: use the "Classical Charts" and permanently exclude from R3 everything that appears in the Top 10 from a given moment on!

Including Shostakovich's First Cello Concerto ? Or any arias in operas sung by Bocelli in one of his albums ?

[Barbirollians]

I may be misjudging Simon Mayo but his history on R1 and 2 did not show great inroads into Classical music. I see that one of the presenters is to be Prom composer Goldie and another that murderer of the classics William Orbit. Maybe if a new radio station really wanted to challenge R3 then it should go back to what R3 was and present ‘proper’ classical music in full.

It sounds like Classic FM dumbed down ! If that is possible ?

[vinteuil]

Simple solution: use the "Classical Charts" and permanently exclude from R3 everything that appears in the Top 10 from a given moment on!

... in 'the olden days'... shops such as HMV had aisles labelled "Easy Listening". I was never sure how they determined that particular selection. But I knew that what I was looking for was an aisle labelled "Difficult Listening". Which is what I always wanted / want the Third Programme / Radio 3 to be...



.

[french frank]

Is this to exclude the unwanted musical/film/show music?

Yes, if that is going to be a staple of the new station, as well

If so why not simply exclude it and not bother with a date cutoff(which would have to be revised periodically anyway surely?)

My thought when I suggested 1940 (I initially wrote 1900 ) was that most of this music, especially the film music, is played on CFM (and it seems is to be included on Scala) is post war. If it is included, is there any reason to exclude anything at all from nominally 'classical' programmes? If so, what would be that reason?

Quite apart from the value judgements and disagreements that could ensue from definitions of innovative/experimental would you not risk excluding living composers if their music didn't fall into either of those categories?

I don't think it risks excluding anything at all from Radio 3 airwaves, though it might mean they are heard less often than at present. There might, for instance be less Gershwin (in the classical programmes), not no Gershwin - just as an example.

I don't know why people think in terms of "pigeonholes" which by definition must include or exclude. Classifications, even categories, allow for a degree of overlap.

[Bryn]

... in 'the olden days'... shops such as HMV had aisles labelled "Easy Listening". I was never sure how they determined that particular selection. But I knew that what I was looking for was an aisle labelled "Difficult Listening". Which is what I always wanted / want the Third Programme / Radio 3 to be...



.

A good few years back, Radio 3 broadcast a whole evening concert to her work.

[vinteuil]

A good few years back, Radio 3 broadcast a whole evening concert to her work.

... well, as an unreconstructed unconditional fan of Laurie Anderson - what can I say but

. . . .

.

[Richard Barrett]

Including Shostakovich's First Cello Concerto ? Or any arias in operas sung by Bocelli in one of his albums ?

I wasn't being entirely serious of course. I don't think there should be rules as to what's allowed and what isn't on some particular radio station. I think it should be a matter of having a sensitive and intelligent choice of people on board who make sensitive and intelligent decisions about programming.

[oddoneout]

Yes, if that is going to be a staple of the new station, as well



My thought when I suggested 1940 (I initially wrote 1900 ) was that most of this music, especially the film music, is played on CFM (and it seems is to be included on Scala) is post war. If it is included, is there any reason to exclude anything at all from nominally 'classical' programmes? If so, what would be that reason?



I don't think it risks excluding anything at all from Radio 3 airwaves, though it might mean they are heard less often than at present. There might, for instance be less Gershwin (in the classical programmes), not no Gershwin - just as an example.

I don't know why people think in terms of "pigeonholes" which by definition must include or exclude. Classifications, even categories, allow for a degree of overlap.

My comment about exclusion post 1940 was in part the result of thinking about music I have sung or am singing in recent months, and also the post 1940 music I've heard on choral evensong. For the most part it would not meet the innovative/experimental criteria and so wouldn't be included in your scheme. So - Rossini O salutaris hostia in by virtue of age, Finzi Magnificat post 1940 not experimental or innovative so out; Bob Chilcott Little Jazz Mass post 1940 innovative/experimental? possibly up for discussion but probably not. The loss of Chilcott might not concern the hardcore R3 listener, but Finzi?
R3 already seems to do quite well at not exploring the full range of what might be called 'R3 music' available, to my way of thinking, so potentially excluding yet more wouldn't get my vote. The creation of Radio Scala would seem to lend itself to R3 replacing the show/musical/film component of its output to concentrate more on what should be(allegedly is?) its remit. Unfortunately as has been previously mentioned it may just result in more audience-chasing stupidity.