Free Move Create

[MrGongGong]

And:

(2) First Mention of a Place in an EEC/EU Country in the Official LSO Timeline

2006 - A new residency at Salle Pleyel in Paris is announced, some 33 years after 1973, beginning with Bernard Haitink conducting Beethoven.

You messaged me a while ago to advise against commenting on Brexit. However, you did not clarify in that e-mail your selective view on freedom of expression. You continue to raise it via threads and others continue to squirt theirs around other threads. All of it opinion. None of it substantiated by facts. So I am providing the facts of historical context. One of our orchestras went across most of the globe in the 1960s on old planes with all the ambition of that decade and no hand wringing over difficulties that hadn't actually been experienced.

Orchestras like the LSO (one of whos members sent me the links) often spend much of a regular week travelling around the rest of the EU and rely on FOM to facilitate this.

You want "facts" ? ASK the ABO or any orchestral musician about it
or ask anyone who works for a university

(I have NEVER "emailed" you, I sent a message on here, which is something else entirely, it it wasn't against "commenting on Brexit" but never mind)

[Lat-Literal]

Orchestras like the LSO (one of whos members sent me the links) often spend much of a regular week travelling around the rest of the EU and rely on FOM to facilitate this.

You want "facts" ? ASK the ABO or any orchestral musician about it
or ask anyone who works for a university

(I have NEVER "emailed" you, I sent a message on here, which is something else entirely, it it wasn't against "commenting on Brexit" but never mind)

Messaged.

The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic undertook its first overseas tour in 1966, playing in West Germany and Switzerland. The City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra went on its first overseas tour in 1955. Its destination? The Netherlands. Du Pre made her debut in Paris and Berlin in Autumn 1962. Julian Bream's first European tours were in 1954 and 1955.

Other music? Four blokes from Merseyside, then unknown and not to be expected to have visa privileges, found it as easy as anything to play in Hamburg, West Germany in the very early 1960s. The first Rolling Stones tour of' Europe was in 1967. By 1968-9, rock bands toured Europe with unprecedented frequency. We even had DJs based in Luxembourg.

So where were the barriers in all of these examples? Visas? Old planes? Long journeys? Even the Iron Curtain? Not insurmountable. In some cases, no hint of difficulty. But then today's ordinary 70 somethings were also taking off in the 1960s with backpacks to become nannies, ski instructors or rioters. As for MPs, many in Parliament in 1979 had been educated in the US or if not at the Sorbonne. And when was the noticeable shift towards Europe? 1973? 1983? 1993? 2003? No - well into the 2000s if at all. The changes - and yes, the scale of it did change - occurred in line with changes from technology, new industries if we have to speak of culture as some involved in it do but only when it suits them, and economic globalism.

[MrGongGong]

Messaged.

The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic undertook its first overseas tour in 1966, playing in West Germany and Switzerland. The City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra went on its first overseas tour in 1955. Its destination? The Netherlands. Du Pre made her debut in Paris and Berlin in Autumn 1962. Julian Bream's first European tours were in 1954 and 1955.

Other music? Four blokes from Merseyside, then unknown and not to be expected to have visa privileges, found it as easy as anything to play in Hamburg, West Germany in the very early 1960s. The first Rolling Stones tour of' Europe was in 1967. By 1968-9, rock bands toured Europe with unprecedented frequency. We even had DJs based in Luxembourg.

So where were the barriers in all of these examples? Visas? Old planes? Long journeys? Even the Iron Curtain? Not insurmountable. In some cases, no hint of difficulty. But then today's ordinary 70 somethings were also taking off in the 1960s with backpacks to become nannies, ski instructors or rioters. As for MPs, many in Parliament in 1979 had been educated in the US or if not at the Sorbonne. And when was the noticeable shift towards Europe? 1973? 1983? 1993? 2003? No - well into the 2000s if at all. The changes - and yes, the scale of it did change - occurred in line with changes from technology, new industries if we have to speak of culture as some involved in it do but only when it suits them, and economic globalism.

Thanks for this
I didn't know you were such an expert on European touring
maybe it would be useful for you to get in touch with the ABO and LSO as they could benefit from your knowledge ?

[Bryn]

Sorry MrGG, a bit OT but 'one nun dead and eighty, plus a bullseye'. That must surely bring a smile to the faces of a good many musicians working internationally.

[MrGongGong]

Sorry MrGG, a bit OT but 'one nun dead and eighty, plus a bullseye'. That must surely bring a smile to the faces of a good many musicians working internationally.

[Lat-Literal]

Thanks for this
I didn't know you were such an expert on European touring
maybe it would be useful for you to get in touch with the ABO and LSO as they could benefit from your knowledge ?

You are very welcome.

I do not necessarily agree with Richard Barrett on his view that musicians should not be given special status beyond other workers although he is being fairly magnanimous. But we are, I think you will agree, in the area here of workers' rights. Given that companies regularly go to the wall, there are now zero hours contracts, and new workers are spending years paying off student debt to the soundtrack of fracking and the building of a new Trident, there is no more paradise now in this country than out. Hence, whatever political arrangements we have do not make a blind bit of difference. We are in a global economic system for better and worse. Any meaningful debate could only concern that system, as they say, "going forward".

I mentioned that driver along with technological changes etc. Certain credit can also be given to outward looking individuals. Simon Rattle, for example, was at the heart of vigorous expansionism from as early as 1980. He is also one of the leading voices with views about Europe. But - like the rest of us - he is getting on a bit. Everything becomes more difficult with age. That is not to justify with any gravitas a confusion of that getting old process with a few guesses on what might happen. Elon Musk might safeguard the LSO by sending it to Mars.

[greenilex]

Can think of a few bald besuited Tory MPs who could profit from a Red Planet jaunt...