New Year’s Honours List 2019

[Stanfordian]

The vile BUF anti-Semite is mentioned in 61 threads here.

Not a fan then eh!

[Barbirollians]

The vile BUF anti-Semite is mentioned in 61 threads here.

More than enough then - so I shall not attempt to reintroduce him here again.

On the other hand the scandal that Ida Haendel has not been made a Dame continues ...

[Bryn]

Not a fan then eh!

Oh, he could conduct Wagner well, for sure, and was said to be a personable retiring type. Nasty piece of work in terms of his social and political outlook, however.

[gurnemanz]

I don't know much about RG. I may have steered clear of his recordings because he usually seems to do Wagner in English, which would not be my favoured way of listening to it.

[french frank]

On the other hand the scandal that Ida Haendel has not been made a Dame continues ...

Are you certain she hasn't turned it down? Not out of the question that she accepted a CBE but declined DBE (that's what Vanessa Redgrave did). Several people declined 'titles' but accepted other honours.

[Beef Oven!]

Oh, he could conduct Wagner well, for sure, and was said to be a personable retiring type. Nasty piece of work in terms of his social and political outlook, however.

By all accounts he wasn't nasty at all. Quite a nice chap. it seems. What are you talking about?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh, he could conduct Wagner well, for sure, and was said to be a personable retiring type. Nasty piece of work in terms of his social and political outlook, however.

I wasn't aware that RG had been mentioned in this year's New Year's Honours - but I think that this neatly sumarises the situation. He was a man with poisonously stupid and obnoxious political opinions; he was also a much-admired conductor of some of the greatest works ever written, played his part in the regeneration of Opera in Britain after the war - the success of Peter Grimes owed not a little to his efforts (and what he must have thought of Britten ... !) - and trained most of the best British singers in a vast range of repertoire. He was knighted for his Music work, not his foul socio-political attitude. Personally, I think that giving a knighthood to someone with such opinions isn't doing very much for the reputation of the Honours system - but I wasn't asked for my opinion in 1985, so ...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

By all accounts he wasn't nasty at all. Quite a nice chap. it seems. What are you talking about?

I don't think it's inaccurate to describe his "social and political outlook" as "nasty", though, is it?

[Beef Oven!]

I don't think it's inaccurate to describe his "social and political outlook" as "nasty", though, is it?

Yes, I think it's inaccurate. He was misguided and wrong-headed rather than nasty. He was a total Germanophile and could not distinguish between right and wrong. The Third Riech and The Holocaust were nasty. Aspects of Sir Oswald Mosley's BUF were nasty (not all of it by any means).

[Beef Oven!]

Personally, I think that giving a knighthood to someone with such opinions isn't doing very much for the reputation of the Honours system - but I wasn't asked for my opinion in 1985, so ...

Does that not depend on the reasons as to why the honour was given? Do they also have to have politically correct views as well?

[Beef Oven!]

Not a fan then eh!

Bryn is a fan. Barbirollians doesn't understand Wagner - in his own words he says that he likes the music of Parsifal, but not the story!!!??? They are dividable??!!!

It's not about being a fan, it's about cowards venting on politically correct (acceptable) targets. You won't find any criticism of Anjem Choudary amongst the thousands of Bryn and Barbirollians posts because they are too damned scared to criticise a brown-face or a muslim! Part of the British disease, I'm afraid.

We didn't get through the Blitz with specimens like these two posters!!!

[jayne lee wilson]

Bryn is a fan. Barbirollians doesn't understand Wagner - in his own words he says that he likes the music of Parsifal, but not the story!!!??? They are dividable??!!!

It's not about being a fan, it's about cowards venting on politically correct (acceptable) targets. You won't find any criticism of Anjem Choudary amongst the thousands of Bryn and Barbirollians posts because they are too damned scared to criticise a brown-face or a muslim! Part of the British disease, I'm afraid.

We didn't get through the Blitz with specimens like these two posters!!!

Beefy, oh Beefy, my music-loving, music-sharing friend... stop digging this hole, please...?

[Bryn]

Bryn is a fan. Barbirollians doesn't understand Wagner - in his own words he says that he likes the music of Parsifal, but not the story!!!??? They are dividable??!!!

It's not about being a fan, it's about cowards venting on politically correct (acceptable) targets. You won't find any criticism of Anjem Choudary amongst the thousands of Bryn and Barbirollians posts because they are too damned scared to criticise a brown-face or a muslim! Part of the British disease, I'm afraid.

We didn't get through the Blitz with specimens like these two posters!!!

What a lot of ignorant twaddle. Point of information, I was active in opposition to al-Muhajiroun. from early 1986, i.e, in its infancy when it was operating around Wood Green. Chances are you were not even aware to its existance at that time.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Does that not depend on the reasons as to why the honour was given? Do they also have to have politically correct views as well?

But (and this is a genuine question, I don't know the answer) did not RG question the facts about the holocaust? And did he not continue in his support for Mosley after the War? If so, this is a rather different matter from "not having politically correct views" - to give a knighthood (a public and international statement of approval, after all) to someone who held such vews (if, I repeat, he indeed did) makes an ambiguous statement on official attitudes to the Holocaust, IMO. For me, his contributions to post-war British cultural life cannot outweigh such attitudes where such a significant Honour is concerned.

But, as I said, I wasn't consulted.

[Bryn]

But (and this is a genuine question, I don't know the answer) did not RG question the facts about the holocaust? And did he not continue in his support for Mosley after the War? If so, this is a rather different matter from "not having politically correct views" - to give a knighthood (a public and international statement of approval, after all) to someone who held such vews (if, I repeat, he indeed did) makes an ambiguous statement on official attitudes to the Holocaust, IMO. For me, his contributions to post-war British cultural life cannot outweigh such attitudes where such a significant Honour is concerned.

But, as I said, I wasn't consulted.

Brief summary here, https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...page&q&f=false .