Downloads- streaming - ripping - storage issues

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  • Dave2002
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 18104

    Downloads- streaming - ripping - storage issues

    It is clear that some of us here have tried/are trying out different ways of listening to recorded music. Some are still using CDs or SACDs (even LPs) while others are streaming or downloading albums or collections.

    There seems to be some enthusiasm for so-called hi res audio files, which on good equipment should sound very good. Some CDs can still sound very good - again when played on good equipment. Some will never sound great, for a variety of reasons, such as the original recordings were not good (poor frequency response, incorrect balance, lost masters and poor transfers etc.) so no amount of marketing - putting those recordings into "hi res" containers will give better results.

    Streaming seems to me to have possible limitations, though for many of us will probably work quite well. It could deliver good quality audio if the user has a fast internet connection, and the streaming server is suitably capable. It does require a "live" connection - if the remote server goes down then the music will stop - even only temporarily. Also if the service provider decides to remove a particular piece of music from the catalogue than music can become unavailable. In some cases the service provider may cease operations.

    Downloads overcome some of the problems with streaming, in that once the user has downloaded the tracks they can be played anywhere, and providing the user takes care, there will be no loss of music if the service provider withdraws the downloads or goes out of business.

    CDs of course take up space, but are otherwise quite easy to manage.

    One concern about hi res downloads is that they are likely to take quite a while to download, and also to use up very considerable amounts of storage on the user's equipment. I raise this issue, as having noticed some download bargains recently - mostly of earlier Vanguard and Vox recordings, I was able to download a number of collections, but found that managing the storage on my MBP laptop presents significant management issues. The download quality is only mp3, so to have those collections in hi res formats would probably increase the download times and the storage requirements by a factor of at least 2, possibly 3-5.

    The time taken to do each download - the equivalent of several CDs - is typically about 5 minutes, and then there is the storage management overhead of backing the files off so that the laptop can still function. Perhaps this is an issue which few really worry about, or encounter (yet?), but it is going to be forced upon consumers as many providers are no longer making physical media versions of music available.

    Some people will invest in large storage (disc drives or SSDs) and won't worry about the download times if they can do downloads in the background, or on a very fast connection. Others may not, and will be likely to encounter problems as their download collection builds up.

    Streaming avoids most of the storage problems, but relies on continuity of service from a provider, and over a long period of time that is by no means certain.

    Perhaps for many of us CDs are still the easiest way at the current time - quality is generally acceptable, the physical storage is not completely unmanageable, though some will be enjoying better audio quality by hi res downloads or streaming. CDs, if available, can usually be obtained within a few days, and if desired can be ripped to a media server - usually within a few minutes - and then stored in a cupboard or store room.
    Last edited by Dave2002; 22-11-18, 09:58. Reason: Spelling
  • LMcD
    Full Member
    • Sep 2017
    • 8917

    #2
    I share your continuing enthusiasm for CDs, and regard my numerous shelvefuls (?) as part of the furniture, rather like bookcases. I also listen to/watch a lot of music, some of it familiar and some of it new to me, on You Tube, where the quality of image and performance can vary greatly but there are some wonderful performances to be found.

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    • jayne lee wilson
      Banned
      • Jul 2011
      • 10711

      #3
      When I started streaming (beyond the better but still lossy codecs of Radio 3, medici, or the Berlin DCH) on Qobuz HiFi in 11/16, at first it seemed a luxury try-before-you-buy thing, but soon became a great way to explore unknown music and recordings, and I gradually found myself listening to it without necessarily buying anything afterward. But this was because it was genuinely CD quality.

      Soon I had evolved to the feeling that downloads were redundant, CDs a special treat, and the advent of Qobuz Studio - 24-bit streaming - simply confirmed how I felt, with its wonderful sound and ease-of-use (at least on Audirvana+).

      But then broadband speeds are high and stable here.... if that weren't the case of course I would feel differently.
      Would I miss Qobuz if it disappeared or I couldn't access it easily? Of course, I'd miss it a lot. It's great to listen to, to explore labels, composers and New Releases, and a lot of fun! But I already have many CDs and downloads; I could return to them or buy more, or simply sign up for another high-quality streaming service like Tidal. I'd just try to adapt to circumstances.

      I guess younger enthusiasts will mostly stream and I don't imagine they'd fret much, if their service went down. They'll just find another one that suits their tastes and their budget.......

      ***
      OTOH, I've just sent my 20-year old vintage Krell transport down to Absolute Sounds for servicing - usual old drawer problems.. I'll try to keep that going too, and have a celebratory CD weekend when it gets home!

      Comment

      • Dave2002
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 18104

        #4
        I have been doing downloads and streaming for years now - probably at least since 2011 - and before that from the BBC - remember the Noseda Beethoven set? I have mostly been using these methods for getting to know "new (to me)" music, and also for acquiring some music which is difficult or impossible to get any other way these days, though having said that from time to time recordings re-surface, either as newly released CDs or on a different streaming/download service. Other alternatives sometimes are to see if there ever were LPs or CDs, and try to pick them up from eBay ***.

        There have been several attempts at download/streaming service provision which have either failed, or which had catalogues which were a bit "now you see it, now you don't". This is frustrating if one downloads one or two tracks from a CD, then try to go back a little while later to find that the whole CD has been removed.

        Qobuz seems fairly stable right now, and perhaps I'll get round to trying the higher quality streaming eventually, but for the moment I use it occasionally for exploring and discovery. I still have a Napster account which I should probably cancel to save money - though it has been useful and interesting in the past. Spotify can be free but I fell out of love with that service as it seemed to cause problems with my computers - I stopped my subscription to that quite a while back. emusic isn't really very good, though does have just enough interesting new music and recordings to stop me cancelling my very low level subscription yet again.

        *** For example this CD album from Würzburg - Impulse - https://www.discogs.com/Percussion-A...elease/4478446 Currently this does seem to be available on Apple.

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        • jayne lee wilson
          Banned
          • Jul 2011
          • 10711

          #5
          Impulse CD here Dave.....


          Download....
          Listen to unlimited or download Impulse by Percussion Art Quartett in Hi-Res quality on Qobuz. Subscription from £10.83/month.


          recent analysis.....
          Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 23-11-18, 03:30.

          Comment

          • Dave2002
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 18104

            #6
            Thanks for that Jayne. For a long while that CD seemed to be unavailable, and the only way was with relatively poor quality mp3s - which in fairness were good enough for casual listening.

            You mentioned Rowicki's Dvorak a few days ago - and that you didn't like the Duo issue. That's one set I've never managed to get, though perhaps now you'd recommend getting a download. I'm still strugggling with the memory space on my MBP and downloads, so I'll probably keep looking to see if that comes back in good transfers, or the original turns up in a charity shop.

            Comment

            • Richard Barrett
              Guest
              • Jan 2016
              • 6259

              #7
              I keep having to replace the hard drive I keep my downloads on because I keep filling them up, although, until now, by the time I fill one, another twice the size has in the meantime reduced in price to cost about the same as its predecessor did. The current one has a capacity of 4TB and is just over half full, and travels around with me in a way that a few thousand CDs obviously couldn't. In the early days of downloading (for me, maybe from 2006 or so) I used to burn my downloads to CDRs but that habit didn't last too long. In those days it would sometimes take hours to download a CD, so today's download times aren't really a factor I think about at all. In any case, at home I usually find myself streaming from Qobuz. I don't particularly miss CDs, any more than I've missed LPs over the past thirty years or so, apart from being concerned about the way income from recorded music sales is increasingly insufficient to finance the making of new recordings. Now that basically any existing recording is available to anyone at any time, I would have hoped that the "special" one-off aspect of actually attending a concert might become more attractive to people, but the opposite seems so far to be the case. Sometimes I have the feeling that the changes in technology we're talking about just lead people (present company excepted no doubt) to value music less than they used to - or maybe it's that the kind of cachet attached to having a large collection of hard-to-find items no longer applies to music so that what we're seeing is, so to speak, the truth about how much (or little) people have always cared about the actual music, as opposed to things like packaging and rarity...

              Comment

              • gurnemanz
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 7470

                #8
                As well as storage, a key issue for me is actually knowing (and locating) what I have. With a large collection of recordings in various formats from various sources, I depend on a database which allows me to do so, being searchable by various criteria: composer, artist, genre, orchestra, track title, format (CD, DVD, mp3 etc), recording label etc etc. You can also store background information and lyrics in it. Anorakish maybe, but very useful and keeps me off the streets at night. You can add your own custom fields: being a Lieder nut, I have made one for "accompanist".

                Comment

                • richardfinegold
                  Full Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 7898

                  #9
                  I have done some downloads, and have several High Rez downloads that are very satisfying, but the downloading market in general has fallen as much as CDs have. I have also paid premium prices for older recordings that were sold as High Rez and turned out not to sound any better than CDs. My internet isn’t the stablest and dropouts appear, tracks don’t always advance, and playback isn’t gapless.
                  With CDs going at ultra bargain prices and CD replay sounding better than ever I have found myself gravitating back to them

                  Comment

                  • jayne lee wilson
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2011
                    • 10711

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                    Thanks for that Jayne. For a long while that CD seemed to be unavailable, and the only way was with relatively poor quality mp3s - which in fairness were good enough for casual listening.

                    You mentioned Rowicki's Dvorak a few days ago - and that you didn't like the Duo issue. That's one set I've never managed to get, though perhaps now you'd recommend getting a download. I'm still strugggling with the memory space on my MBP and downloads, so I'll probably keep looking to see if that comes back in good transfers, or the original turns up in a charity shop.
                    This is the original set, and it is a lovely, lovely-sounding, thing to have... don't think you'd regret it...


                    Newer reissue, don't know how it sounds though....

                    Comment

                    • Dave2002
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 18104

                      #11
                      Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                      This is the original set, and it is a lovely, lovely-sounding, thing to have... don't think you'd regret it...


                      Newer reissue, don't know how it sounds though....
                      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvorak-Lond...honies+rowicki
                      Thanks for this. I'll check those out. I have a feeling I "almost" bought a set either in Prague or Budapest years ago - but didn't. There used to be a CD shop close to the Gerbeaud Cafe in Budapest which was mentioned recently but I think it had gone last time I went there.

                      The Impulse CD is on its way I think.

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