Negative Threads

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Since when has "liking" something had anything to do with whether it is of value ?

(2000 words, 30 minutes)

I know what you mean, but I suppose it means that at least one person values it.

[MrGongGong]

I know what you mean, but I suppose it means that at least one person values it.

I "like" some things which are of very little value or significance
and "dislike" some which are the opposite

taste and value are easily conflated (but DoG still fails on the grounds of the text )

[french frank]

I know what you mean, but I suppose it means that at least one person values it.

That would just mean that one person valued it; I think that to declare that something is, in some general sense, 'of value' would mean that either: 'people' in general' valued it; or to expand on the initial sense, that one special community valued it. This would, I suspect, mean that that 'special community' had a wider knowledge/experience of similar things than the general public had.

In that sense, to quote a 'special community' to which I don't belong, the opinion of people who consider a new piece of classical music of value/not of value is infinitely more interesting than mine would be, and therefore I bow to that opinion. Similarly, people who have a deeper knowledge - through study - of, for example, Marxism (and could no doubt expand on it ad nauseam), have a more worthwhile opinion of Marxism than people who know little or nothing and have a (negative, or I suppose positive) knee-jerk reaction whenever Marxism is mentioned.

[Stanfordian]

On the whole I find this series of negative threads most dispiriting.

When there is so much music richness to enjoy out there why focus on the things we dont like.

[jayne lee wilson]

There seem to be one or two threads currently on the go, or resurrected, that are decidedly negative in tone.

I'd much rather hear about people's enthusiasms instead of 'Bassoonists I Can't Stand' or 'Tuba Player's You Don't Care For' etc.

I have a lot of sympathy with this.... one reason I gave up starting threads on various new discoveries or enthusiasms was how quickly they petered out.... as the recent Enescu Octet one did (OK - maybe I loved it to death, but.... more later tonight anyway, should anyone care...)...
There's also a tendency to sneer & snipe at the same easy media targets too often, which does get tedious (even if they often deserve it..)...

I became obsessed by Bruno Maderna's Orchestral music this autumn, but felt that it would get little response here, so....

[teamsaint]

I have a lot of sympathy with this.... one reason I gave up starting threads on various new discoveries or enthusiasms was how quickly they petered out.... as the recent Enescu Octet one did (OK - maybe I loved it to death, but.... more later tonight anyway, should anyone care...)...
There's also a tendency to sneer & snipe at the same easy media targets too often, which does get tedious (even if they often deserve it..)...

I became obsessed by Bruno Maderna's Orchestral music this autumn, but felt that it would get little response here, so....

Jayne, the active community here really is very small in number, and we don’t always give or get the reponse that we might like. And people are busy, and the range of music available ( and so the range of possible activity and discussion ) is literally endless these days.

Actually, there has been a fair bit of comment on Maderna’s music here over the years, and I think you would have engaged people. FWIW, it doesn’t necessarily take much to test the water on a subject, composer, work and see if it might lead to fruitful discussion, before committing to a lengthy post.

Actually, I don’t think the negative comments on here are so numerous in the main, but as with a few huge 4x4 cars in inappropriate areas, you do tend to notice the ones that there are.

[Bryn]

I have a lot of sympathy with this.... one reason I gave up starting threads on various new discoveries or enthusiasms was how quickly they petered out.... as the recent Enescu Octet one did (OK - maybe I loved it to death, but.... more later tonight anyway, should anyone care...)...
There's also a tendency to sneer & snipe at the same easy media targets too often, which does get tedious (even if they often deserve it..)...

I became obsessed by Bruno Maderna's Orchestral music this autumn, but felt that it would get little response here, so....

I must admit I know far too little of his orchestral work, the first oboe concerto, the Hommage to Varèse, . . . I would welcome recommendations of other recordings.

[Petrushka]

I became obsessed by Bruno Maderna's Orchestral music this autumn, but felt that it would get little response here, so....

I only have a CD of the three oboe concertos and am not aware of much else so I would be delighted to have your thoughts on Maderna. Far more likely to make me investigate than another thread on 'Music I Completely and Utterly Loathe' or some such.

[jayne lee wilson]

I must admit I know far too little of his orchestral work, the first oboe concerto, the Hommage to Varèse, . . . I would welcome recommendations of other recordings.

The Grand Reference for Maderna is the NEOS 5-Volume series...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/search?q=neos+maderna&i=boutique

(...still on Amazon too at reasonable prices...)

....which really does take you on a fantastic journey from the 40s to the tragic premature end (1973, Maderna just into his musical prime) courtesy of that 20thC music hero, Arturo Tamayo. Qobuz sadly lacks the (excellent) notes but you find most of them on the NEOS website if you search out Maderna there...

But there are some earlier classics, notably the 1970 premiere of the marvellous Grande Aulodia (a sort of expanded, aleatoric, fantastical oboe/flute concerto) with Maderna himself conducting the RAI in very vivid mono...his other late, great masterpiece is the Quadrivium (Naxos or NEOS, both good and very different due to the aleatoric sections).
There's a terrific Stradivarius series (especially the Violin Concerto)... All three Oboe Concerti fit neatly on one CD - from a choice of two (, both good, go for the Holliger stunner...

I'll try to do more sometime, but I haven't made many notes on it yet..just dwelling upon in a genuine, visionary musical revelation...the sheer beauty, daring and violence of his orchestral imagination, and the creative sparks thrown off by the aleatoric/written out conflict/opposition...
....a Qobuz search will access many good albums ...

[Bryn]

The Grand Reference for Maderna is the NEOS 5-Volume series...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/search?q=neos+maderna&i=boutique

(...still on Amazon too at reasonable prices...)

....which really does take you on a fantastic journey from the 40s to the tragic premature end (1973, Maderna just into his musical prime) courtesy of that 20thC music hero, Arturo Tamayo. Qobuz sadly lacks the (excellent) notes but you find most of them on the NEOS website if you search out Maderna there...

But there are some earlier classics, notably the 1970 premiere of the marvellous Grande Aulodia (a sort of expanded, aleatoric, fantastical oboe/flute concerto) with Maderna himself conducting the RAI in very vivid mono...his other late, great masterpiece is the Quadrivium (Naxos or NEOS, both good and very different due to the aleatoric sections).
There's a terrific Stradivarius series (especially the Violin Concerto)... All three Oboe Concerti fit neatly on one CD - from a choice of two (, both good, go for the Holliger stunner...

I'll try to do more sometime, but I haven't made many notes on it yet..just dwelling upon in a genuine, visionary musical revelation...the sheer beauty, daring and violence of his orchestral imagination, and the creative sparks thrown off by the aleatoric/written out conflict/opposition...
....a Qobuz search will access many good albums ...

Thanks for that. I will start with the Neos via QOBUZ.

[Lat-Literal]

There seem to be one or two threads currently on the go, or resurrected, that are decidedly negative in tone.

I'd much rather hear about people's enthusiasms instead of 'Bassoonists I Can't Stand' or 'Tuba Player's You Don't Care For' etc.

I agree.

[jayne lee wilson]

Thanks for that. I will start with the Neos via QOBUZ.

Tried Qobuz Studio yet? Wonderful initiative, wonderful sound....revelling in it here.

And, with any loose change left from your wheelbarrow to carry the Bach 333 around get this before the prices shoot off (which many Strad/Maderna issues do...)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002AG2NL6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The shorter items are relatively slight, but the Grande Aulodia is not matched by the stereo NEOS or Strad issues... there's a moment near the end when the soloists come in, singing ecstatically over tense, hovering strings... the stereo versions take their own routes through the work, missing the effect which once heard - never forgotten...

[Bryn]

Tried Qobuz Studio yet? Wonderful initiative, wonderful sound....revelling in it here.

And, with any loose change left from your wheelbarrow to carry the Bach 333 around get this before the prices shoot off (which many Strad/Maderna issues do...)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002AG2NL6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The shorter items are relatively slight, but the Grande Aulodia is not matched by the stereo NEOS or Strad issues... there's a moment near the end when the soloists come in, singing ecstatically over tense, hovering strings... the stereo versions take their own routes through the work, missing the effect which once heard - never forgotten...

The disc duly ordered (a reasonable amount of my tax-free company pension lump sum remains ).

I might consider upgrading to Studio next June when my HiFi sub comes up for renewal. That is, unless they have changed their ludicrous policy of only facilitating upgrades at the time of renewal.

[Dave2002]

You want positive recommendations ...

Recently I bought a few tracks from this CD - http://www.musicweb-international.co...mber_95433.htm - music by Robert Muczynski - an American composer I'd not heard of. The music is pleasant enough - I've not heard sufficient of it to be sure if I'll still like it over a longer period, but I might.

I'd also not heard of some of the players on the disc - such as Ginevra Petrucci. On the basis of this and a few YouTube videos I've looked for, I'd say she's one of the best flute players I've ever heard - and even if you disagree, you'll have fun checking this out.

[Dave2002]

Jayne, the active community here really is very small in number, and we don’t always give or get the reponse that we might like.

Indeed, but would you prefer it otherwise? There is usually a significantly smaller number of active users of a website than those who read it, lurk, or otherwise consume it. I do think there has been a shrinking of the core user body here in the last year or so - though does it really matter?