Radio 3 FM relay closures in Wales

[mw963]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but have any of our readers served by the Llangollen transmitter (which spills a long way into Cheshire, Merseyside, Shropshire etc, as well as covering north-east Wales) noticed the absence of Radio 3 FM from this morning?

All part of a scheme to improve Radio Wales FM coverage, at the expense of giving away the Radio 3 allocations. This time next week the rest of the Welsh relay network (32 stations in all) will surrender Radio 3 in favour of Radio Wales, including Llandrindod Wells.

The other main stations aren't affected (Wenvoe, Haverfordwest, Blaen Plwyf, Llandonna etc) as they already have allocations both for Radio Wales and Radio 3. I should stress that apart from Llangollen the other stations affected serve relatively small areas.

It will be interesting to see how much fuss there is (maybe most listeners are already on Radio 3 DAB or Dsat or Freeview), and if there isn't much I imagine that Radio 3 FM in the rest of Britain will be on borrowed time.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2018/radio-wales-fm

[NatBalance]

Well I have DAB but I'm not happy with it. It bubbles sometimes, horrible sound. I prefer FM for R3, only trouble is the sound sometimes goes bonkers for about a minute unless I switch radio off and on. I've noticed that on FM R2 and R4 reception is sometimes not as good as it used to be years ago. Are they deliberately making FM not as good so folk will move over to DAB?

I did not know anything about this work. I could not understand what was going on when I switched it on this morning and had to move over to bubbly DAB. I'll be glad when R3 comes back on FM.

Rich

[Bryn]

Well I have DAB but I'm not happy with it. It bubbles sometimes, horrible sound. I prefer FM for R3, only trouble is the sound sometimes goes bonkers for about a minute unless I switch radio off and on. I've noticed that on FM R2 and R4 reception is sometimes not as good as it used to be years ago. Are they deliberately making FM not as good so folk will move over to DAB?

I did not know anything about this work. I could not understand what was going on when I switched it on this morning and had to move over to bubbly DAB. I'll be glad when R3 comes back on FM.

Rich

Re. you DAB problems, What sort of aerial are you using? I was an early adopter and though things have improved here over the decades, I found a chimney-mounted DAB dipole necessary to get free of the 'boiling mud' in the early days. Of course, if your Internet connection can handle it, the iPlayer should offer the best audio quality Radio 3 has to offer.

[mw963]

Well I have DAB but I'm not happy with it. It bubbles sometimes, horrible sound. I prefer FM for R3, only trouble is the sound sometimes goes bonkers for about a minute unless I switch radio off and on. I've noticed that on FM R2 and R4 reception is sometimes not as good as it used to be years ago. Are they deliberately making FM not as good so folk will move over to DAB?

I did not know anything about this work. I could not understand what was going on when I switched it on this morning and had to move over to bubbly DAB. I'll be glad when R3 comes back on FM.

Rich

If you've lost it as of this morning because you're using Llangollen and its relays then it won't be back. The changeover to Radio Wales is permanent I'm afraid; (at the moment Llangollen Radio 3 is transmitting a retune announcement). In the bits of England that use Llangollen you can normally switch to Holme Moss or Sutton Coldfield. But when the full switch over comes, this time next week, for the rest of the Wales relays, many people will have no alternative but to use DAB or other digital delivery.

As has been said, bubbling on DAB can be cured with a good aerial if all else fails, but I can understand your frustration.....

[LMcD]

Radio 3 has long been missing from digital radio for hours every day in Scotland in order to create space for BBC Alba.

[mw963]

Surely LMcD that only applies to DTT (ie Radio 3 via Freeview)....? It (Radio 3) carries on on DAB and Freesat during BBC Alba hours....? (unless you know otherwise)

[LMcD]

Surely LMcD that only applies to DTT (ie Radio 3 via Freeview)....? It (Radio 3) carries on on DAB and Freesat during BBC Alba hours....? (unless you know otherwise)

You're quite right! And it's only been a problem when we've been on holiday in Scotland, as most hotels seem to have Freeview rather than Freesat. I'm told that DAB radio is a bit dodgy here on the Suffolk coast owing to our proximity to the Continent and our even closer proximity to the UK's largest container port. (Freesat suits me fine)

[Bryn]

You're quite right! And it's only been a problem when we've been on holiday in Scotland, as most hotels seem to have Freeview rather than Freesat. I'm told that DAB radio is a bit dodgy here on the Suffolk coast owing to our proximity to the Continent and our even closer proximity to the UK's largest container port. (Freesat suits me fine)

A DAB Yagi aerial directed at your closest UK DAB transmitter might resolve the continental interference problem.

[NatBalance]

Re. you DAB problems, What sort of aerial are you using? I was an early adopter and though things have improved here over the decades, I found a chimney-mounted DAB dipole necessary to get free of the 'boiling mud' in the early days. Of course, if your Internet connection can handle it, the iPlayer should offer the best audio quality Radio 3 has to offer.

I can get it on my computer and TV but what if you mostly use a portable radio? I mainly listen to the radio as I'm doing other things so my portable is my listening medium these days and I carry it around with me from room to room and to bed at night. Will a DAB dipole work for that?

If you've lost it as of this morning because you're using Llangollen and its relays then it won't be back. The changeover to Radio Wales is permanent I'm afraid; (at the moment Llangollen Radio 3 is transmitting a retune announcement). In the bits of England that use Llangollen you can normally switch to Holme Moss or Sutton Coldfield. But when the full switch over comes, this time next week, for the rest of the Wales relays, many people will have no alternative but to use DAB or other digital delivery.

Do you mean the retune does not apply to Llangollen? I took it to mean that all we had to do was retune.

[mw963]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. No, Radio 3 FM has gone - permanently - from Llangollen, and its relays. On 24th October the current retune message will be replaced with Radio Wales, and on that same day all the other relays in Wales not already carrying Radio Wales will have their Radio 3 service replaced by Radio Wales, again permanently. It's a genuine loss of FM coverage for Radio 3. If no one complains it's more than possible that Radio 3 will disappear from FM in the whole of Britain, it would save a lot of money!

I have every sympathy with your DAB problems, and as you say a roof aerial isn't exactly an option if portability is required. Can you retune on FM to Holme Moss (91.5 MHz) or Sutton Coldfield (90.5 MHz)?

[Bryn]

I can get it on my computer and TV but what if you mostly use a portable radio? I mainly listen to the radio as I'm doing other things so my portable is my listening medium these days and I carry it around with me from room to room and to bed at night. Will a DAB dipole work for that?

Many portable DAB radios have a telescopic aerial which can be unscrewed to reveal an F type connector. If you had 50 Ohm aerial leads down from a roof-mounted DAB dipole in each of the rooms you wanted to listen in, you could screw into whichever of those were handy at any given time. A bot of a faff, but it should help if your radio has such an F type connector.

[NatBalance]

Thanks very much Bryn, and for the brilliant photos. I also need the radio close at hand because I continually need to alter the volume. Actually, I've not had much problem with the bubbling. Funnily enough it was only a week ago I decided to listen to DAB, I've normally listened to FM on my DAB radio, but now I'm having to listen to it I've not really had the bubbling that often.

Mw963 - I tried those frequencies you suggested, got nothing for Sutton Coldfield, something on Holm Moss but bad reception. Well, if it saves a lot of money I hope they spend it on quality rather than quantity, which I seem to remember is the reason for the bubbling, trying to cram in too many stations rather than getting better quality for less. Don't know if that's right.

Thanks folks. Incidentally, why did I not know about this shut down of FM here? I've read nothing, heard nothing on the radio. The fact that it's local I don't think has any bearing. If it had only affected London I'm sure we would have all heard about it. Why did they not make an announcement. That I think is pretty bad form.

[oddoneout]

Thanks very much Bryn, and for the brilliant photos. I also need the radio close at hand because I continually need to alter the volume. Actually, I've not had much problem with the bubbling. Funnily enough it was only a week ago I decided to listen to DAB, I've normally listened to FM on my DAB radio, but now I'm having to listen to it I've not really had the bubbling that often.

Mw963 - I tried those frequencies you suggested, got nothing for Sutton Coldfield, something on Holm Moss but bad reception. Well, if it saves a lot of money I hope they spend it on quality rather than quantity, which I seem to remember is the reason for the bubbling, trying to cram in too many stations rather than getting better quality for less. Don't know if that's right.

Thanks folks. Incidentally, why did I not know about this shut down of FM here? I've read nothing, heard nothing on the radio. The fact that it's local I don't think has any bearing. If it had only affected London I'm sure we would have all heard about it. Why did they not make an announcement. That I think is pretty bad form.

I think one can hazard a guess at why that was the case.....
Even assuming there was no ulterior motive in keeping it (relatively) quiet, I have noticed that increasingly it is assumed that everyone is permanently plugged into rolling news output/social media and so will know what's happening without any further efforts being made. Too bad if you aren't part of that, even if it's not from choice - not everyone has or can afford internet access.

[mw963]

Well it'll be interesting to see what happens next Wednesday when the rest of the Welsh Radio 3 FM relays concerned are switched over to Radio Wales.

As suggested, one can't help wondering whether the discretion with which this is being pushed through mightn't be deliberate. On the one hand the BBC would love not to have to pay to keep the FM network going (and much of the plant is now thirty or more years old, and choices are having to be made as to whether to renew it, or try and keep increasingly unreliable gear going) but on the other hand I suspect they've noticed what has happened in Norway, where one gathers that the NRK FM switch-off has led to a massive increase in listening to non-public-service stations, whether those still operating on FM, or via the internet.....

[french frank]

Had this from a listener, which I don't fully understand as it's not an issue I've followed closely . Don't know if it adds any new thoughts:

"You will be interested to note the following:

http://www.frequencyfinder.org.uk/updates_fa.html

There are a lot more transmitters begin [being?] transferred over than previously thought, with the interesting: Note that the BBC's claim that no new FM frequencies available for Radio Wales is not correct. Additional frequencies in the BBC sub-bands have been reserved for many of these transmitters since the 1980s and frequencies in these sub-bands could be found for many others. However, there is a frequency shortage in North East Wales, affecting the Llangollen transmitter, while frequencies are only available in the commercial radio sub-bands in some other areas.

There is a press release: https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/la...radio-wales-fm

It contains the interesting words "Radio 3 will continue to be available to 92% of households in Wales on FM as well as its existing availability on DAB radio, television and online." So what was the point in adding the transmitters in the first place?"