What was it all about - really?

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  • Dave2002
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 18045

    #16
    Originally posted by Lat-Literal View Post
    Yes although in a recent discussion I had I discovered that hot desking has put an end to much of the social aspect.
    That's an interesting observation. Surely it - hot desking - can only affect a smallish proportion of the working population. Perhaps the internet and social media are also having effects, and some organisations do encourage working at home - though the take up has been surprisingly (IMO) low - with only firms like BT setting up systems which really facilitate home working. Home working may increase feelings of isolation, depending on how organisations and the people within them operate.

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    • Richard Tarleton

      #17
      I've thought about what, in a long career working for a leading conservation NGO, I did that was ephemeral and what, if anything, will last. Under the latter heading I'd include:

      Work involving what Bertrand Russell described as altering the position of matter in relation to the earth's surface - creating new access routes where these did not previously exist, a major footpridge or two, other structures (even if people have long since forgotten who put them there).

      Data, which I've collected or helped to collect, on the natural world which contributes to permanent databases there for others to use (still doing this in retirement).

      Er....that's possibly about it.

      I've spent a huge amount of time on environmental education and interpretation both on paper and digitally, and directly with actual people (young and old) in the field - still doing a bit of this, too. I know this made a difference to the people at the time, but it's a process, others are doing the same thing in different ways today.

      But, a huge amount of what I did especially in latter years has simply evaporated. Much was to do with strategies, or processes, which have been superseded by other strategies and processes. A lot of conservation work involves things like cutting, clearing, grazing and general maintenance which is very important but doesn't last - natural succession takes over very quickly if you stop. A lot of what has to be done on the ground (the altering the position of matter etc. etc.) remains the same, but ideas about what administrative superstructure should bring this about change constantly, as do - from time to time - ideas about whether it needs to be done at all (see "Re-wilding" )

      Work creating content for the website which was well received at the time lasted for its intended shelf life and beyond, vanished when the entire website was replaced with a completely new one. People at the top come and go, the new ones keen to make their mark in different ways. Not saying this is a bad thing, necessarily, it's just part of life. New ideas, for example on health and safety or HR, cause you to do things in a different way or even lurch off in a slightly different direction. I'm quite philosophical about it, looking back, because I know I contributed to a lot of good things, but I often asked myself, at the time, as I drove to yet another meeting, or training course, or whatever, whether the world would have been any different if I wasn't going.

      A central plank of Yuval Noah Harari's "Sapiens" is about belief as being central to what sets us apart - the ability to believe in a common set of abstract ideas that hold societies, organisations, whatever, together. The most interesting people at work were those who challenged the sets of commonly held beliefs. That the organisation I retired from bore little resemblance to the one I joined perhaps indicates that some of them at least succeeded.

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      • oddoneout
        Full Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 9306

        #18
        Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
        That's an interesting observation. Surely it - hot desking - can only affect a smallish proportion of the working population. Perhaps the internet and social media are also having effects, and some organisations do encourage working at home - though the take up has been surprisingly (IMO) low - with only firms like BT setting up systems which really facilitate home working. Home working may increase feelings of isolation, depending on how organisations and the people within them operate.
        Not really given that the general management attitude is to think the worst of their employees, and assume that homeworking means not working, although now of course it can be dressed up as security concerns. Ironic really considering how many jobs(especially office type ones) are about occupying the hours between arriving and departing, without any real consideration being given to the quality of the work done during that period. The framework has been in place for decades to facilitate home working - the firm of insurance brokers I have used for more than 30 years went down that route partially more than 25 years ago, and fully a few years back - although the internet has changed the way some things are done.

        Comment

        • kernelbogey
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 5807

          #19
          Two ideas of relevance to the OP sustain me from time to time.

          The first is that I am wholly insignificant in the sweep of human history - let alone that of the planet. In 100 years no one will remember me.

          The second, and I hope not entirely contradictory one, is that I believe that I have had small influences on some people I am related to (offspring particularly) and some of those I have worked with. Some of these influences may perhaps continue through another generation (grandchildren, for example).

          In the majority of cases, these influences have little or nothing to do with the work I have done.

          Edit: these thoughts seem more existential perhaps than the overall drift of the thread, which seems to have been taken to be about work; although I nonetheless think them a legitimate response to the thread title.
          Last edited by kernelbogey; 07-09-18, 10:11. Reason: Disappointment

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          • Dave2002
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 18045

            #20
            Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
            Not really given that the general management attitude is to think the worst of their employees, and assume that homeworking means not working, although now of course it can be dressed up as security concerns. Ironic really considering how many jobs(especially office type ones) are about occupying the hours between arriving and departing, without any real consideration being given to the quality of the work done during that period. The framework has been in place for decades to facilitate home working - the firm of insurance brokers I have used for more than 30 years went down that route partially more than 25 years ago, and fully a few years back - although the internet has changed the way some things are done.
            I think this depends on the employer. Some employers do encourage home working - but still exploit their staff, but in different ways. Think about phoning someone "at work" up - they may actually be at home, with phone redirection, and doing other things on a computer in a home office. The employer saves on the cost of office space, and the employee saves on travel time and costs, but the employer may then expect or at least hope that the employee will function out of office hours - in the evening, and at weekends etc.

            Divisions between home and work life can become blurred. Some people don't mind, some don't see this as a problem, but it is an issue.

            Done well this kind of operation can be beneficial to the employer, the employee and consumers, but badly ....

            In the US I once rang up an insurance company in the evening to ask for help, and had a very helpful conversation with a lady. When I commented that (in those days) nobody in the UK would be in an office working at that time of day, she said something like "Oh - it's fine, I'm at home. My calls are directed here and my employer pays me for doing this. I can process your request from here." That was over 25 years ago. Seemed like a win-win situation to me at the time, and I still don't think that many firms in the UK work like that.

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            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37851

              #21
              Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
              I think this depends on the employer. Some employers do encourage home working - but still exploit their staff, but in different ways. Think about phoning someone "at work" up - they may actually be at home, with phone redirection, and doing other things on a computer in a home office. The employer saves on the cost of office space, and the employee saves on travel time and costs, but the employer may then expect or at least hope that the employee will function out of office hours - in the evening, and at weekends etc.

              Divisions between home and work life can become blurred. Some people don't mind, some don't see this as a problem, but it is an issue.

              Done well this kind of operation can be beneficial to the employer, the employee and consumers, but badly ....

              In the US I once rang up an insurance company in the evening to ask for help, and had a very helpful conversation with a lady. When I commented that (in those days) nobody in the UK would be in an office working at that time of day, she said something like "Oh - it's fine, I'm at home. My calls are directed here and my employer pays me for doing this. I can process your request from here." That was over 25 years ago. Seemed like a win-win situation to me at the time, and I still don't think that many firms in the UK work like that.
              The question of the number of hours employees consider necessary for employees to work relates to unemployment, of course, since the longer hours employees are prepared to maintain, the fewer employees needed to do the work, but the greater the output of the individual worker and thus profitability of the enterprise concerned. The knock-on consequences to be seen in long-term unemployment being sustained alongside zero hours contracts and the like were once upon a time mitigated by co-ordinated trade union organisation across sectors to try and ensure level playing fields; however this would have resulted in a fairer share out of work the employer class would have claimed to be undermining competitiveness - and so the same old rigmarole of a systemically inegalitarian society is just allowed to carry on, regardless of the human costs.

              Comment

              • Richard Tarleton

                #22

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                • oddoneout
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 9306

                  #23
                  but the employer may then expect or at least hope that the employee will function out of office hours - in the evening, and at weekends etc.
                  That expectation can and does exist in the 'normal' working environment, and can be difficult to deal with for fear of job loss or other difficulties. In some lines of work an element of that additional load is unavoidable but a great deal of it comes down to poor management of staff resources and workload. In some cases I suspect it may be deliberate mismanagement as a way of saving money - the odd few hours here and there won't be claimed as overtime/time off in lieu by an individual salaried staff member, but multiplied by several such can easily add up to a day's work that has been got for free.

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                  • Serial_Apologist
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 37851

                    #24
                    Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
                    That expectation can and does exist in the 'normal' working environment, and can be difficult to deal with for fear of job loss or other difficulties. In some lines of work an element of that additional load is unavoidable but a great deal of it comes down to poor management of staff resources and workload. In some cases I suspect it may be deliberate mismanagement as a way of saving money - the odd few hours here and there won't be claimed as overtime/time off in lieu by an individual salaried staff member, but multiplied by several such can easily add up to a day's work that has been got for free.
                    I think you're being much too kind towards the employer class, oddoneout!

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                    • Dave2002
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 18045

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
                      Been there, done that. Isn't it called mushroom management or some such? Feed them s*** and keep them in the dark. However I/we did deliver in the end, but working to management deadlines and milestones was a joke! Management people get very edgey if they don't think there's progress each week.

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                      • french frank
                        Administrator/Moderator
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 30507

                        #26
                        I realise I've been very lucky

                        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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                        • LeMartinPecheur
                          Full Member
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 4717

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                          ...progress each week.
                          Define term please!
                          I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!

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