What are the items you refuse to own on principle?

[oddoneout]

Electrically powered vehicles usually have limited range, and that may be more of a problem in rural areas than in urban ones. The electricity has to be generated somewhere, and then stored - and it does not follow that this is necessarily a clean or efficient process. It can be, if wind or solar energy is used, but that's not guaranteed. Fuel cells are I believe not really in the running, nor likely to be. At one time I thought that hydrogen based fuel cells might be a reaonable alternative power source, but now I think that's unlikely.

National Grid doesn't(can't) store electricity......and yes generating the power with fossil fuels carries its own costs. One view is that the pollution problems are concentrated in one place so that those elsewhere can enjoy the benefits of clean cars - as with all these things the answers are not straightforward.
The question of range limits of electric cars is much less of an issue now and will continue to improve, and arguably in the context of the short, urban, high-pollution implication journeys so many people do it's not relevant anyway. This link is interesting in terms of the rural areas issue.

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/blog/north-coast-500-ev-tour-spreading-word-about-electric-vehicles

The electric car issue does rather highlight as far as I'm concerned the problems that arise when infrastructure 'planning' is subject to short-term political whim rather than the bigger picture of the future of the country - on the one hand pushing for widespread adoption of electric vehicles while on the other conveniently ignoring the rather fundamental questions around the generation of the electricity needed(capacity and method) let alone questions of service delivery(charging points).
I did consider having an electric car some years ago, as I had the off-road parking, charging point access was possible and I was on an E7 tariff. I simply could not justify the financial outlay - not just the upfront cost of the vehicle but the leasing costs of the batteries. A pity as I was an ideal candidate - no long journeys, mostly urban travel.

[Dave2002]

National Grid doesn't(can't) store electricity......and yes generating the power with fossil fuels carries its own costs.

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/blog/north-coast-500-ev-tour-spreading-word-about-electric-vehicles

The electric car issue does rather highlight as far as I'm concerned the problems that arise when infrastructure 'planning' is subject to short-term political whim rather than the bigger picture of the future of the country - on the one hand pushing for widespread adoption of electric vehicles while on the other conveniently ignoring the rather fundamental questions around the generation of the electricity needed(capacity and method) let alone questions of service delivery(charging points).
I did consider having an electric car some years ago, as I had the off-road parking, charging point access was possible and I was on an E7 tariff. I simply could not justify the financial outlay - not just the upfront cost of the vehicle but the leasing costs of the batteries. A pity as I was an ideal candidate - no long journeys, mostly urban travel.

Actually National Grid can, and does, store electricity, but only for relatively short periods of time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

It is also possible to use a tidal barrage to store energy - as well as to generate it. Allegedly this can be quite efficient if coupled with other renewable energy sources.

[oddoneout]

Erm, as I understand it Dinorwig stores water, pumped up at low demand times , ready to power the turbines. That's not storing electricity, which needs some form of battery capacity, but energy. Storing electricity is something which needs to be addressed given the increasing generating activity of alternative but not 24 hour generating sources such as wind and solar(more accurately PV), not least to reduce the ironically increasing use of 'dirty' generating methods to deal with temporary shortfalls.

[Serial_Apologist]

Don't batteries store electricity?

[kernelbogey]

I would not own a gun in this country, even if I could find a legitimate way to own one.

There was a time when I might have gone to live in the US. I've sometimes wondered if I would have been able to adhere to that ethical position had I lived there. Today that would be an even more tricky conunudrum....

[Dave2002]

Erm, as I understand it Dinorwig stores water, pumped up at low demand times , ready to power the turbines. That's not storing electricity, which needs some form of battery capacity, but energy. Storing electricity is something which needs to be addressed given the increasing generating activity of alternative but not 24 hour generating sources such as wind and solar(more accurately PV), not least to reduce the ironically increasing use of 'dirty' generating methods to deal with temporary shortfalls.

OK pedant! Dinorwig does store energy. Proposed solutions to this problem also include using wind turbines to power pumps to pressurise gas underground. When electricity is required the pressurised gas is used to drive generators. Batteries store electric charge.
Another grid based solution is for there to be many electric cars all plugged into the grid. Those that are not actually being driven which have charged up batteries could supply (lend) electricity to the grid and be recharged again later. Currently this is not a viable solution as there are too few electric cars.

[gradus]

For anyone bereft of public transport services as many rural dwellers are, the car ideally new or newish and therefore probably more reliable is the only practical choice, we travel about 15k miles pa in ours. If a bike works for you then ride it but they're not much good at carrying family shopping loads nor can you easily visit your favourite restaurant with friends if it's say a 15 mile return journey.
Come the revolution I'll be happy to travel on a rural bus service that mirrors the regularity of say London transport but until then I'll stick with me mota, John.

By the way, does anyone know what's happened/happening to hydrogen cell technology?

[MrGongGong]

For anyone bereft of public transport services as many rural dwellers are, the car ideally new or newish and therefore probably more reliable

hummm
not sure about reliable
I wonder why so many folks around here (rural with poor public transport) drive around in old Volvo's and Landrovers ?

[ardcarp]

Living as I do in a very rural area with extremely narrow lanes bordered by stone walls or hedgerows, it seems madness to drive a new car! Vehicles are always getting scraped as they tuck in to let others pass. Hence you accept a certain level of paintwork degradation...and buying a new car seems ridiculous.

[Zucchini]

I wonder why so many folks around here (rural with poor public transport) drive around in old Volvo's and Landrovers ?

For hay, wet wax jackets & springer spaniels

[gradus]

Living as I do in a very rural area with extremely narrow lanes bordered by stone walls or hedgerows, it seems madness to drive a new car! Vehicles are always getting scraped as they tuck in to let others pass. Hence you accept a certain level of paintwork degradation...and buying a new car seems ridiculous.

I take the point but rural living without reliable (underlined) personal transport is pretty difficult. Fortunately Suffolk has few stone walls but plenty of very narrow lanes planted with blackthorn etc and that is very good at car scratching but can sometimes be polished out.

[kernelbogey]

......and buying a new car seems ridiculous.

I always remember an advice column on buying a car pointing out that a new car loses 20% of its value the moment it leaves the dealership (i.e. the VAT).

[Richard Tarleton]

For hay, wet wax jackets & springer spaniels

I'm with gradus on the reliability front - new cars don't stay new, of course, but if they've only been driven by you and are properly maintained cars these days stay reliable for a long time. I'm on my second new car since retirement. I'd still be on my first if we hadn't fallen victim to another hazard of narrow country roads, a young just-passed-his-test driver showing off to his mates, who rear-ended us. The car was just under 3 years old. But, I'd been talked into a one-off payment of £300 "gap insurance" which for the first three years covers the difference between the write-off value of the car and a brand new one - several thousand. I had the satisfaction of knowing that the other guy's next insurance quote would ensure he wouldn't drive for a very long time.

[ardcarp]

Cars are far more reliable than they were, say, 20 years ago. A 3-year old secondhand car with low mileage (not one with too much electronic wizardry) seems to make the best economic sense. The reduction in value when driving a new car off the forecourt isn't just VAT. A lightly-used nearly new car (e.g. one used by a dealer as a demo car) is already at least £1000 below list price...depending of the model, of course.

[Dave2002]

Cars can be a weird market. Some pre-owned or pre-registered vehicles can go for £000s less than the ones the dealers will supply “at list price”. I had a top spec Ford Focus years ago which had 7 miles on the clock when I drove it away. Allegedly some cars are imports - as if that really makes a difference for most cars in the EU though the “industry” seems to want to pretend that such are actually inferior in some way.