GMT / British Summer Time

[jayne lee wilson]

Whilst I agree with your second paragraph and hope that EU will indeed go down that route, your notion of a "clean Brexit" is one on which the possibilities of a "good decision" on it seem not to have a hope of existence; whilst I don't even have the faintest idea as to what it means, there is no evidence of anything that could possibly be described as one, given the events and their conduct since the announcement of the advisory non-legally-binding opinion poll more than 26 months ago. Not to worry, though - there are at least two legal challenges outstanding (not to Brexit itself but to the legality of said opinion poll and its outcome as well as to the invoking of Article 50) which are predicated upon the injustice of barring UK ex-pats from voting in that poll and, if either or both judgements (one in a UK Court and the other in the General Court of EU) uphold those ex-pats' rights, it is likely that both the invoking of Article 50 and the opinion poll and its result will be declared null and void on the grounds of their illegality, which will result on the only conceivable "clean Brexit", i.e. none at all!

[vinteuil]

Re consultation, and results - the one under discussion here was one which I wasn't even aware of. If any decision were to be based on that I'd be very concerned. Also, what aspects of a "one size fits all" solution approach do people not get? Basically they only work if the circumstances for most of the participants are similar. Averages don't always work either, as surveyed populations can be bi-modal - or multi-modal, and "solutions" based on averages might lead to 100% dissatisfaction..

... the older I get, the more democracy seems problematic -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_paradox

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_irrelevant_alternatives

.

[kernelbogey]

The end of October is like...abandon hope all ye who enter...

Then November is like a tunnel of rain.... perhaps the God of Climate Change can do something about that?

"Freezing wet December, then -
Bloody January again!"
(Flanders and Swann)

[french frank]

Just let's stay on European Standard Time permanently like the rest of Western Europe.

Portugal? Along with Iceland and the British Isles it's WET France and Spain and east are CET until one reaches Finland, the Baltics, Ukraine, Greece on EET.

[gradus]

The end of October is like...abandon hope all ye who enter...

Then November is like a tunnel of rain.... perhaps the God of Climate Change can do something about that?

..but back into F sharp major around April.

[Sir Velo]

Allegedly putting the clocks back for the winter months reduces accidents - particularly RTAs.

Allegedly? So where's the evidence of this? Basically, unless it's trialled one will never know. Moreover, given the fact that more of us are leaving the house an hour earlier than a generation ago in order to beat the rat run into work we never see daylight anyway. Therefore, if RTAs are less in the winter months, it is for a very different reason than daylight saving. Ferchrissakes, winter is dismal enough without having to undergo the trauma of the sun suddenly setting an hour earlier at the end of October than it did the previous week.

I'm not sure I agree with your point about Sweden either. Those countries within or on the perimeter of the Arctic circle have very little daylight in the winter months anyway. Having worked in Sweden I know that the sun does not rise until after the time most workers are already at their desks, and sets long before they clock off.

[Serial_Apologist]

Portugal? Along with Iceland and the British Isles it's WET France and Spain and east are CET until one reaches Finland, the Baltics, Ukraine, Greece on EET.

Yes but this has no bearing on clocks going forwards and backwards, which happens simultaneously in all countries, in parallel, doesn't it?

[french frank]

Yes but this has no bearing on clocks going forwards and backwards, which happens simultaneously in all countries, in parallel, doesn't it?

Hadn't given that any thought - I was responding to ahinton's comment that like the rest of western Europe we should stick to 'European Standard Time' which I took to mean Central European Time, which Portugal is not on although it is in western Europe.

[Lat-Literal]

Yes - it is very anti Portuguese. Discriminatory. And anti the sea and its history. Just say no to this modern political nonsense.

The fact that the Portuguese people are very short should be no excuse for bullying. It's a Raheem Sterling thing all over again.

[Dave2002]

Allegedly? So where's the evidence of this? Basically, unless it's trialled one will never know. Moreover, given the fact that more of us are leaving the house an hour earlier than a generation ago in order to beat the rat run into work we never see daylight anyway. Therefore, if RTAs are less in the winter months, it is for a very different reason than daylight saving. Ferchrissakes, winter is dismal enough without having to undergo the trauma of the sun suddenly setting an hour earlier at the end of October than it did the previous week.

I think there is evidence based on statistical data. It's not only drivers who are affected, but also kids going to school. Even getting some of them out of bed could be a problem - there is increasing evidence about the need for sleep, and how it affects different people and different age groups.

I'm not sure I agree with your point about Sweden either. Those countries within or on the perimeter of the Arctic circle have very little daylight in the winter months anyway. Having worked in Sweden I know that the sun does not rise until after the time most workers are already at their desks, and sets long before they clock off.

I sometimes walked to work in Sweden in the dark, and was then treated to watching the sun come up sometime after 9 am, when I had already been working for an hour. That was on my schedule too - I did not deliberately go in early. Re leaving time - by late aftenoon/evening don't most of us cope - at least with some semblance of being awake?

Some people go to concerts and plays in the evening, and there's always In Tune to listen to on the evening drives. Modern living is screwed anyway, with many people staying up late, and then, as you suggest, joining or trying to avoid the rats in the morning.

[teamsaint]

From about mid November through to Feb, mornings are already dark enough and hard enough, if you have to be up for work, school. With permanent summer time, it would be much worse in the mornings. Light till five in the evening would be a small compensation, but not nearly enough, IMO. Of course if you dont have to be up and about early, your view might differ.
I’d start summer time a month earlier, and possibly end it a few weeks later, and having double summer time ( and thus having two changes) for July and August would be great, although those with young children probably wouldn’t agree.

Can’t see any virtue in centralising these things at a continent wide level. There is already a divergence of view between those in the north of Britain, and those in the south.

[BBMmk2]

I think it’s about time we scrapped these outdated events in our year.

[Dave2002]

I think it’s about time we scrapped these outdated events in our year.

You can see from my comments above that I don't agree. If we did scrap the time change, would we revert to GMT (bad?) or keep BST (better)?

[BBMmk2]

You can see from my comments above that I don't agree. If we did scrap the time change, would we revert to GMT (bad?) or keep BST (better)?

Hopefully BST. Be in line with the EU then.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

You can see from my comments above that I don't agree. If we did scrap the time change, would we revert to GMT (bad?) or keep BST (better)?

Oh - heaven forbid that noon should actually be at noon.